Comments on: Who Moved My MCSE Cheese? Part 1 http://www.trainsignaltraining.com/microsoft-certified-professional-part-1/2008-12-17/ Free Computer Training & News Brought To You By Train Signal Tue, 09 Mar 2010 05:58:19 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: David P. Rovaldi http://www.trainsignaltraining.com/microsoft-certified-professional-part-1/2008-12-17/comment-page-1/#comment-48825 David P. Rovaldi Tue, 23 Dec 2008 16:52:37 +0000 http://www.trainsignaltraining.com/?p=2330#comment-48825 Dear Olajide: I am afraid you are experiencing what began in the US many years ago. Hiring managers found out quickly by hiring personnel that had the "logos" did not necessarily mean the person had the practical experience to perform the tasks they were hired to do. This became known as "paper certified" in whatever discipline [MCSE, Novell, A+] and led to hiring manager's making up their own practical tests, verbal or written, to test an applicants ability to think and analyze a problem. This allowed a manager to see how the person thought through the process of practical problem solving. Unfortunately some companies still employ the method of weeding out resumes [CVs] without regard to the person's parctical experience. This sounds like what you are experiencing. Until these folks realize what they are doing you might want to consider applying to another company that will appreciate your practical as well as educational [certifications] experiences. Good luck. David Rovaldi Dear Olajide:
I am afraid you are experiencing what began in the US many years ago. Hiring managers found out quickly by hiring personnel that had the “logos” did not necessarily mean the person had the practical experience to perform the tasks they were hired to do. This became known as “paper certified” in whatever discipline [MCSE, Novell, A+] and led to hiring manager’s making up their own practical tests, verbal or written, to test an applicants ability to think and analyze a problem. This allowed a manager to see how the person thought through the process of practical problem solving. Unfortunately some companies still employ the method of weeding out resumes [CVs] without regard to the person’s parctical experience. This sounds like what you are experiencing. Until these folks realize what they are doing you might want to consider applying to another company that will appreciate your practical as well as educational [certifications] experiences. Good luck.
David Rovaldi

]]> By: Olajide Oluwaseun http://www.trainsignaltraining.com/microsoft-certified-professional-part-1/2008-12-17/comment-page-1/#comment-48675 Olajide Oluwaseun Mon, 22 Dec 2008 08:15:40 +0000 http://www.trainsignaltraining.com/?p=2330#comment-48675 Hi David, this article is an exciting one and an eye opener as well. I would have been among the first to be certified in MSCE in Nigeria but I did not think it was necessary then. Because I feklt experience will speak before certification. But as it is now, before your CV is even consider it must be full of "Logos". I found it interesting as well that Microsoft has changed certification path in the line of MCITP and MCTS, I prefer this to the general MCSE, because it gives you that credence that you are an authority in this particular product. Although it has it's own disadvantages but on the long run like david said, It all depends on what you want. Looking forward to part2 Hi David,
this article is an exciting one and an eye opener as well. I would have been among the first to be certified in MSCE in Nigeria but I did not think it was necessary then. Because I feklt experience will speak before certification. But as it is now, before your CV is even consider it must be full of “Logos”.

I found it interesting as well that Microsoft has changed certification path in the line of MCITP and MCTS, I prefer this to the general MCSE, because it gives you that credence that you are an authority in this particular product. Although it has it’s own disadvantages but on the long run like david said, It all depends on what you want.

Looking forward to part2

]]> By: David P. Rovaldi http://www.trainsignaltraining.com/microsoft-certified-professional-part-1/2008-12-17/comment-page-1/#comment-48519 David P. Rovaldi Sat, 20 Dec 2008 17:52:29 +0000 http://www.trainsignaltraining.com/?p=2330#comment-48519 Dear Jason: Yes I will follow this article to its fruition via this site. As stated [with you in agreement] I firmly believe the vendor neutral track is the way to go. I have found MS methodologies in testing to be somewhat cheesy. My area of interest would be in the area of command line products such as Cisco, although they are moving to the point and click method of system maintenance. I continue to insist that there will always be a market for command line education as point and click can never replace going into the registry and making changes, particularly if the GUI is disabled or not working. I believe that Cisco will be an avenue that is viable as a good paying position in the job market. I would have been in the IT market now if the circumstances had been different in 2002 and the fallout that followed. My current position is comfortable, in demand and good paying. It has nothing to do with the IT market but my experience and education has put me head and shoulders above the majority of those in my profession. Perhaps as I proceed toward retirement I may continue or even supplement my current professional training with some further exploits into the vendor neutral testing arena but at this point that venue is on the back burner. I have always enjoyed attending seminars, classes and training wherever I can find it. It has done nothing but enhance my position in the job market in whatever area I have entered. This is probably the single item I could stress to your audience, train, train and train some more. Never think you know it all because the job market will run over you. Even within the academic arena, select a degree program and slowly work toward your goal one course per semester, per year every other year or whenever you have the time to take a course. A young person in their 20's could have a degree in 15 to 20 years [sounds like a long time but] and before you know it as time quickly passes, you'll have a degree along with the 15 to 20 years of real world experience. This puts the candidate far above the average job candidate and more diverse in their actual working background. I’ll be keeping an eye on the follow up articles and best of luck in your research. Thanks David Rovaldi montangnard@netzero.net Dear Jason:
Yes I will follow this article to its fruition via this site. As stated [with you in agreement] I firmly believe the vendor neutral track is the way to go. I have found MS methodologies in testing to be somewhat cheesy. My area of interest would be in the area of command line products such as Cisco, although they are moving to the point and click method of system maintenance. I continue to insist that there will always be a market for command line education as point and click can never replace going into the registry and making changes, particularly if the GUI is disabled or not working. I believe that Cisco will be an avenue that is viable as a good paying position in the job market. I would have been in the IT market now if the circumstances had been different in 2002 and the fallout that followed. My current position is comfortable, in demand and good paying. It has nothing to do with the IT market but my experience and education has put me head and shoulders above the majority of those in my profession. Perhaps as I proceed toward retirement I may continue or even supplement my current professional training with some further exploits into the vendor neutral testing arena but at this point that venue is on the back burner.
I have always enjoyed attending seminars, classes and training wherever I can find it. It has done nothing but enhance my position in the job market in whatever area I have entered. This is probably the single item I could stress to your audience, train, train and train some more. Never think you know it all because the job market will run over you. Even within the academic arena, select a degree program and slowly work toward your goal one course per semester, per year every other year or whenever you have the time to take a course. A young person in their 20’s could have a degree in 15 to 20 years [sounds like a long time but] and before you know it as time quickly passes, you’ll have a degree along with the 15 to 20 years of real world experience. This puts the candidate far above the average job candidate and more diverse in their actual working background. I’ll be keeping an eye on the follow up articles and best of luck in your research. Thanks
David Rovaldi
montangnard@netzero.net

]]> By: Jason Zandri http://www.trainsignaltraining.com/microsoft-certified-professional-part-1/2008-12-17/comment-page-1/#comment-48443 Jason Zandri Fri, 19 Dec 2008 23:11:34 +0000 http://www.trainsignaltraining.com/?p=2330#comment-48443 Hi David, Thank you for your comments and while I've never been impacted directly by off shoring (I was indirectly impacted once and that’s a story for another day) I do have an understanding of some of what has happened and is still happening today. There will be at least one other segment to “Who Moved My MCSE Cheese” (I am writing some of it now and it may be that I need a part 3) so hopefully you’ll return for it. Thank you too for your feedback on the vendor neutral certifications - I’ve made a note to try to do some follow up on those in a future series of articles. I’ll try to figure out when I could put some time to it after I get the chance to run it past Kasia our editor in chief. You are correct on all your points: "CompTIA certs give a broader range of challenges to the test taker". "One who has a vendor neutral certification has a better overall background in the area of study than does a MS tested person." "Even though MS is the big dog in the yard, Linux, Novell and others still have a loyal following and will continue to do so into the future." On that one point it isn't even just the loyal following part, in some places and particular uses Microsoft is not always the leader. As an example, Microsoft has come a long way in the virtualization space but VMWare was there first and has their foothold. Probably the best advice that I could give is to consider where you are in the field and where you want to go. If you want to be a network person Network+ is a great base to start from and then move to a vendor based network certification such as the Cisco tracks if that’s the way you feel you want to go. If you should decide you want to become more of a VoIP guru then you’d go a different way and down a specialized track. Chasing the dollar is never going to make you happy – chasing your passion will. Yeah, I know you have to eat, I do too, but I like to think back over my day at dinner time a little more satisfied sometimes and you don’t get there when over 1/3 of your day (the work portion of the day) is not satisfying to you. Just my thoughts – your mileage may vary. Stay in touch and good luck in your future studies. Hi David,

Thank you for your comments and while I’ve never been impacted directly by off shoring (I was indirectly impacted once and that’s a story for another day) I do have an understanding of some of what has happened and is still happening today.

There will be at least one other segment to “Who Moved My MCSE Cheese” (I am writing some of it now and it may be that I need a part 3) so hopefully you’ll return for it.

Thank you too for your feedback on the vendor neutral certifications – I’ve made a note to try to do some follow up on those in a future series of articles. I’ll try to figure out when I could put some time to it after I get the chance to run it past Kasia our editor in chief.

You are correct on all your points:

“CompTIA certs give a broader range of challenges to the test taker”.

“One who has a vendor neutral certification has a better overall background in the area of study than does a MS tested person.”

“Even though MS is the big dog in the yard, Linux, Novell and others still have a loyal following and will continue to do so into the future.”

On that one point it isn’t even just the loyal following part, in some places and particular uses Microsoft is not always the leader. As an example, Microsoft has come a long way in the virtualization space but VMWare was there first and has their foothold.

Probably the best advice that I could give is to consider where you are in the field and where you want to go. If you want to be a network person Network+ is a great base to start from and then move to a vendor based network certification such as the Cisco tracks if that’s the way you feel you want to go. If you should decide you want to become more of a VoIP guru then you’d go a different way and down a specialized track.

Chasing the dollar is never going to make you happy – chasing your passion will.

Yeah, I know you have to eat, I do too, but I like to think back over my day at dinner time a little more satisfied sometimes and you don’t get there when over 1/3 of your day (the work portion of the day) is not satisfying to you.

Just my thoughts – your mileage may vary.

Stay in touch and good luck in your future studies.

]]> By: David P. Rovaldi http://www.trainsignaltraining.com/microsoft-certified-professional-part-1/2008-12-17/comment-page-1/#comment-48437 David P. Rovaldi Fri, 19 Dec 2008 22:31:08 +0000 http://www.trainsignaltraining.com/?p=2330#comment-48437 Dear Sir: Your article on the chronology of the market and the certification process was enlightening. I was one of those workers who was the recipient of the "off shoring" of tech jobs. I returned to school in 1999 to 2001 to earn an AS Degree in Network Engineering as part of a career change. I spent 20K+ in a private tech school and after and during my program worked in the market at $10 to $12 per hour in Florida. I moved up to Washington, DC Metro area in 2002 and had a job only for 6 months when the IT market was going through its crash period for entry-level jobs. I became certified in Workstation, Server 2Kand Network+ but competing against all the heavyweights in the DC area after the DotCom and telecom bubbles burst was fruitless. I returned to my previous career and am satisified to have a job that is in demand in today's market. I have thought of continuing my certs but have a new appreciation for vendor neutral certifications. It is my belief that CompTIA certs give a broader range of challenges to the test taker. Although they do not specifically target the MS products one will be able to navigate these products with reasonable proficiency after a vendor neutral certification. I personally believe that one who has a vendor neutral certification has a better overall background in the area of study than does a MS tested person. I also believe that even though MS is the big dog in the yard, Linux, Novell and others still have a loyal following and will continue to do so into the future. I also would seriously consider the vendor neutral track as far as it will go toward a MCSE should I continue my certification process again in the future. Remember this high tech job market was "supposed to be the new industrial revolution", the only problem was the revolution turned out to be jumping ship to other countries! Another case of corporate America screwing the American Worker as they have done and will continue to do every time the opportunity presents itself to the corporate hierarchy as a way to save money. A recent example of this greed and self-centered attitude is the current level of disaster our financial system has undergone based on those principles of greed, excesses and the “bottom line” syndrome. There are certain jobs they cannot off shore and fortunately mine is one of those, so at least for the immediate term I seem to be covered. The future however is another question as corporate America continues to provide the American Worker with a head start in a race to the bottom of the wage scale inside the US in an attempt to remain “competitive” in the world job market. We are now being told that we have to compete in a global economy with third world countries but I certainly don’t see this reflected in the corporate salaries. If this mentality continues we are going to be the next latin-America. I don’t know about you but I certainly don’t want to win that race! David Rovaldi montangnard@netzero.net Dear Sir:
Your article on the chronology of the market and the certification process was enlightening. I was one of those workers who was the recipient of the “off shoring” of tech jobs. I returned to school in 1999 to 2001 to earn an AS Degree in Network Engineering as part of a career change. I spent 20K+ in a private tech school and after and during my program worked in the market at $10 to $12 per hour in Florida. I moved up to Washington, DC Metro area in 2002 and had a job only for 6 months when the IT market was going through its crash period for entry-level jobs. I became certified in Workstation, Server 2Kand Network+ but competing against all the heavyweights in the DC area after the DotCom and telecom bubbles burst was fruitless. I returned to my previous career and am satisified to have a job that is in demand in today’s market. I have thought of continuing my certs but have a new appreciation for vendor neutral certifications. It is my belief that CompTIA certs give a broader range of challenges to the test taker. Although they do not specifically target the MS products one will be able to navigate these products with reasonable proficiency after a vendor neutral certification. I personally believe that one who has a vendor neutral certification has a better overall background in the area of study than does a MS tested person. I also believe that even though MS is the big dog in the yard, Linux, Novell and others still have a loyal following and will continue to do so into the future. I also would seriously consider the vendor neutral track as far as it will go toward a MCSE should I continue my certification process again in the future.
Remember this high tech job market was “supposed to be the new industrial revolution”, the only problem was the revolution turned out to be jumping ship to other countries! Another case of corporate America screwing the American Worker as they have done and will continue to do every time the opportunity presents itself to the corporate hierarchy as a way to save money. A recent example of this greed and self-centered attitude is the current level of disaster our financial system has undergone based on those principles of greed, excesses and the “bottom line” syndrome. There are certain jobs they cannot off shore and fortunately mine is one of those, so at least for the immediate term I seem to be covered. The future however is another question as corporate America continues to provide the American Worker with a head start in a race to the bottom of the wage scale inside the US in an attempt to remain “competitive” in the world job market. We are now being told that we have to compete in a global economy with third world countries but I certainly don’t see this reflected in the corporate salaries. If this mentality continues we are going to be the next latin-America. I don’t know about you but I certainly don’t want to win that race!
David Rovaldi
montangnard@netzero.net

]]> By: Jason Zandri http://www.trainsignaltraining.com/microsoft-certified-professional-part-1/2008-12-17/comment-page-1/#comment-48418 Jason Zandri Fri, 19 Dec 2008 18:17:02 +0000 http://www.trainsignaltraining.com/?p=2330#comment-48418 So perhaps a little more context should have been built around that comment I wrote. The whole section reads: Microsoft was keenly aware of these certification issues in the marketplace and the knowledge space of the IT workers as they worked to upgrade their exam processes into the 21st century. With the advent of Active Directory as part of the Windows 2000 architecture, Microsoft completely supplanted Novell Directory Services (NDS) as customers rolled out Windows 2000 in place of NT4 configurations and as other legacy systems reached their end of life. The intention of what I wrote was to convey that Novell went from the market leader at the time to second tier and in many organizations, large and small, they have been totally supplanted. Active Directory has supplanted the NT4 domain structure as well. I wasn't explicit enough but hopefully the meaning was there. So perhaps a little more context should have been built around that comment I wrote.

The whole section reads:

Microsoft was keenly aware of these certification issues in the marketplace and the knowledge space of the IT workers as they worked to upgrade their exam processes into the 21st century. With the advent of Active Directory as part of the Windows 2000 architecture, Microsoft completely supplanted Novell Directory Services (NDS) as customers rolled out Windows 2000 in place of NT4 configurations and as other legacy systems reached their end of life.

The intention of what I wrote was to convey that Novell went from the market leader at the time to second tier and in many organizations, large and small, they have been totally supplanted.

Active Directory has supplanted the NT4 domain structure as well.

I wasn’t explicit enough but hopefully the meaning was there.

]]> By: Paul http://www.trainsignaltraining.com/microsoft-certified-professional-part-1/2008-12-17/comment-page-1/#comment-48416 Paul Fri, 19 Dec 2008 17:48:37 +0000 http://www.trainsignaltraining.com/?p=2330#comment-48416 "Microsoft completely supplanted Novell Directory Services (NDS) as customers rolled out Windows 2000...." Really?? I must tell the 28000 customers, with a few hundred million seats between them, of Novell's that run NDS (now called eDirectory) :) To be fair I am actually assuming that you meant in your terms of your standard small or medium business. “Microsoft completely supplanted Novell Directory Services (NDS) as customers rolled out Windows 2000….”

Really?? I must tell the 28000 customers, with a few hundred million seats between them, of Novell’s that run NDS (now called eDirectory) :)

To be fair I am actually assuming that you meant in your terms of your standard small or medium business.

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