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Vista is for Suckers and Mac Users are Better Than You
The title of this article seems to be the underlying theme in every “Mac vs. PC” commercial.
The ones that have drawn my attention recently are the commercials targeting Vista. You’ve seen those commercials haven’t you?
Most of them go something like this:
Mac: “Hello I’m a super hip, fun, exciting Mac for young people that want to improve their lives.”
PC: “And I’m a stuffy, suit and tie wearing, dinosaur PC that can only do calculations and spreadsheets. I suck the fun out of your everyday life.”
Mac: “Hey PC, what are you doing over there?”
PC: “I’m just wondering why Vista has so many bugs.”
Mac: “Yeah Vista is pretty bad and nobody likes it. It doesn’t work for a variety of reasons that I won’t list here. Don’t you wish you were a Mac so you wouldn’t have to wear a suit and tie and be so boring?”
PC: “Hey, Vista may not ever work and Macs may be better than PCs and I may dream about being a Mac but … wait a minute! Oh, you outsmarted me again Mac!”
Mac: “That’s why PC users are so dumb, because PCs are dumb. Come to an Apple store … bring money.”
I may be paraphrasing a bit (are you picking up my sarcasm here?) but I’m a little disturbed at the way Apple looks at the consumer.
Apple assumes that the average consumer will look at these commercials or any publications from the mainstream media and come to the conclusion that Vista is a hassle. Vista has a negative stigma, mostly among consumers that don’t know anything about it.
For those of you that are against Vista, I want you to take a look at the reason why. Is it because of specific problems you’ve had with Vista? Or, is it because Apple and the mainstream media have talked you into a false sense of loathing for Vista because of the problems of a few?
I’m inviting you to pour out your “Steve Jobs Kool-Aid” and take a look at the truth: Vista gets a bad rap for no good reason.
Vista is Bad … Because I Said So … That’s Why
The Mac commercials that trash Vista focus on just that, trashing Vista, but they don’t tell you anything about why you should buy a Mac.
They tell you that Vista isn’t compatible with any peripherals, that Vista has so much security you can’t do any work without a popup, that Vista has over 14,000 virus types constantly attacking it and Mac is never attacked, and that Vista is so complicated that choosing the version that’s right for you is nearly impossible.
All of this Vista rhetoric does two things: It makes Vista look bad and overtly shames you for owning a PC.
If you watch the “Mac vs. PC” commercials you will hear a lot of blanket statements and exaggeration with nothing to back it up. Why does Vista have so much security? Why does Vista have compatibility issues? Why is Vista attacked by so many viruses?
Too many people, like Apple, use this verbiage to their advantage, but they don’t take the time to explain their claims.
Don’t believe me? Check out the latest Get a Mac ads.
Consider the Source …
The truth is that Vista is an excellent operating system.
It’s not meant to be a life changing experience or a one way ticket to fun and excitement. It’s meant to be the interface that allows you to use your computer without contending with a plethora of code. It’s an operating system, just like Leopard (Mac’s newest operating system) is an operating system.
So why do a lot of people think that Vista will ruin their computing experience?
The answer can be found in mass media hyperbole and sweeping generalizations made by competitors. Apple and Linux are trying to sell a product in a market place that Microsoft has dominated for years.
It makes sense to take shots at the market leader in order to make yourself a contender, but the way in which you do reflects on how your company is viewed.
I don’t know about you but when I see those “Mac vs. PC” commercials I feel like Apple is looking down its nose at me and all PC users letting us know that Mac users are better than us just because they use a Mac.
I don’t have the problems with Vista that these commercials claim everyone has and I definitely don’t feel stupid for using Vista like these commercials claim I should.
Do Blanket Statements Keep You Warm at Night?
Claim #1: Installing Vista is not straightforward. You will need to update your graphics card, memory, CPU, etc.
Let’s take a look at the minimum requirements to run Vista Home Premium, Business, or Ultimate editions:
- CPU – Modern Processor (800 MHz or greater)
- Memory – 512MB
- Hard Drive – 15GB free space
- Graphics – DirectX 9 capable graphics processor
- DVD Drive – Yes
I want to point something out here. I helped build my parents an average PC more than three years ago and even it has way more than the minimum requirements to run Vista. Upgrading their PC to Vista was a breeze and there were no compatibility issues.
In fact, if you have an older PC and you are concerned that it may not have the system requirements to run Vista or even if you want to make sure your newer PC devices are compatible with Vista, you can check out Microsoft’s Assessment and Planning Solution Accelerator.
Additionally, if you are worried whether some of your older programs will work in Vista, you can run Microsoft’s Program Compatibility Wizard within the Operating System.
This simply simulates the environment that the old program would normally run in, such as Windows XP, so that it can run without problems in Vista. Check out how to do this easy procedure at Windows Vista Help and How-to.
It takes just a few minutes to find out if Vista is right for you.
If you are running an old PC that doesn’t meet the above system requirements then I can save you the trouble of attempting a Vista upgrade. Just go get a new system because it has been many years since a PC has been built that wouldn’t meet the minimum system requirements for Vista.
I think one of the biggest problems consumers have with Vista is that they jump in head first and upgrade to Vista before they think about whether their machine is able to run it. Then when they realize that Vista isn’t exactly like XP they are upset and want to go back to XP.
Nothing works perfectly, not even a Mac, so do a little research and make sure an upgrade to Vista will work for you. Don’t go into it expecting everything to work perfectly, because that’s impossible.
One final thing I want to point out concerning system requirements is that you cannot purchase a new PC today that doesn’t greatly exceed the minimum system requirements to run Vista.
First of all, the minimum system requirements to run Vista would run the OS, but not allow you to access some of Vista’s higher graphic features. With that in mind, I built the most barebones (basic) PC you could buy from Dell just to show you that the cheapest PC has quite a bit more than you would ever need to run Vista.
Compare the specs on the Dell PC with the minimum system requirements; there is nothing on this PC that would need to be upgraded to run Vista.
Note that Vista Ultimate is chosen as the operating system. Dell checks your configuration of hardware and software before you checkout to make sure what you have chosen is compatible.
But I want it Now!
Claim #2: PCs have security problems and Vista’s User Account Control is more annoying than helpful.
The first thing I want to talk about is the idea that PCs have more security problems than Macs. The fact is that PCs do have
more security problems than Macs because there are just so many more PCs out there. According to Greg Keizer, a leading writer for Computer World, Mac topped out in December of 2007, with an 8% market share. PCs ended the year with a 91.8% market share. Read the full article about Mac market share.
So if you were a hacker and you were creating malware to affect the greatest amounts of people possible, would you create it to go after Macs or create it to go after PCs? With at most 8% of the market share it just doesn’t make much sense to go after Macs.
PCs on the other hand, own over 90% of the market so when Vista or any other OS is developed for PCs, the developers have to take into account that there are millions of hackers out there trying to hack an overwhelming majority of the world’s systems.
So, is it true that PCs have more security issues than Macs? Absolutely, but this is mostly because there are so many more PCs than there are Macs in the world, hence the added security in Vista.
The second thing I want to discuss is how scared people are of User Account Control.
When you take a look at the “Mac vs. PC” commercial above, the PC is asked for permission by his “Security Officer” to perform any task. The PC then goes on to say that he could turn off UAC but then he wouldn’t get any warnings at all, which would defeat the purpose of the security feature in the first place.
This commercial suggests that you cannot do anything in Vista without first being asked for permission to do the task.
This made me want to take a look at the tasks that UAC applies to. Here is a list of tasks that will generate a UAC prompt if UAC is enabled:
- Changes to files or folders in %SystemRoot% or %ProgramFiles%
- Installing and uninstalling applications
- Installing device drivers
- Installing ActiveX controls
- Changing settings for Windows Firewall
- Changing UAC settings
- Configuring Windows Update
- Adding or removing user accounts
- Changing a user’s account type
- Configuring Parental Controls
- Running Task Scheduler
- Restoring backed-up system files
- Viewing or changing another user’s folders and files
- Repairing a network connection (requesting a new IP address)
Take a look at that list. You won’t see accessing the Internet, creating a document or spreadsheet, playing a video game, using email, instant messaging, watching movies, video or picture editing, or any of the other things the basic user will do on a daily basis.
Writer Bob Rankin on his website Ask Bob Rankin suggests that users are so impatient when it comes to clicking “Continue” on a UAC popup that disabling this feature or at least hiding the popups are the answer.
To me, it is not a big deal to click my mouse one more time to make sure that my computer is as secure as possible. The example that he gives is that inexperienced users see the UAC popup and don’t know if it’s from Vista or if it’s from some sort of malware, such as if the user is trying to execute something from the command line.
How many users are trying to run commands from the command line and at the same time don’t know what UAC is trying to do? That’s like entering a marathon and not knowing how far you have to run; it just doesn’t happen. This is just another example of “Microsoft Hating” at its best.
Rankin goes on to comment on elevating the program. You can elevate any program that needs UAC permission by right-clicking the icon and selecting “Run as Administrator”. This will allow the program to open when a normal user would not be able to open it.
Rankin’s article makes this process sound like climbing a mountain. One extra click and we’ve lost our patience? With all due respect, it’s like a child waiting for something to be cooked in the microwave for 30 seconds and whining, “But I want it now.”
My “favorite” Bob Rankin article is Ubuntu Hardy Heron where he actually suggests using a Linux operating system as an alternative to Vista.
Are we in the Twilight Zone? I consider myself an above average user and I wouldn’t feel comfortable using a Linux OS. How would the average user or better yet the inexperienced user feel about using a Linux OS?
Let everyone at your office know that your Vista systems will now be running the Ubuntu 8.04 (the newest Linux operating system) OS, and let me know what you hear from your employees.
I Can’t Decide … Can I Spin a Wheel?
Claim# 3: Having 6 different versions of Vista to choose from is a bad thing.
I had to say something about this ad because the way it’s presented is so ridiculous. The ad implies that choosing one of the Vista operating systems is difficult because you may end up with one that doesn’t have what you want on it or you may pay too much for one that has features you don’t need on it.
The character playing “PC” is so flummoxed by the decision that he couldn’t possibly make it on his own. Since when was buying an operating system so serious that the only way to figure out which one you want is to spin a wheel?
If you order a salad in a restaurant and you are given six different salad dressings to choose from, are you going to “short circuit” and say, “No thanks; I just can’t choose the one that’s right for me.”
Is it just me or does Apple have a pretty low opinion of 91.8% of the market?
Also, According to the commercial, Mac comes with one operating system that has everything you need. How does Apple know exactly what I need (wow I’m suddenly channeling Andy Rooney)?
But seriously, I would rather have the choice to purchase what best suits my home or business needs rather than just get what’s given to me.
Elitist Marketing vs. Vista … Yeah I Went There …
Because of elitist marketing and erroneous exposure, Vista has become the “problem OS”.
The reason this article has focused so much on the ads generated by Apple is because of the high profile commercials that describe vague problems with Vista and sometimes contain disreputable content.
One “Mac vs. PC” commercial claims that Mac is “the finest desktop PC on the market, at any price”, as stated by the Wall Street Journal. You can see this ad as a part of a collection of “Mac vs. PC” commercials below — it’s the very first ad:
The fact is the article in the Wall Street Journal that they are referring to was written in 2005, by a respected technology expert and self proclaimed Mac lover Walter Mossberg, and nearly the entire context that quote appeared in was left out.
The actual quote is:
For mainstream consumers doing typical tasks — Web surfing, email, office productivity, photos, music, home videos, etc. — it’s the finest desktop PC on the market, at any price. Hard-core game players, stock-market day traders, serious video producers and some other niche users should look for other computers.
This snippet basically says that the writer likes the iMac G5 but if you’re a gamer, use your computer for work, or edit movies you need a different type of computer.
Plus, Walt Mossberg is a well respected technology expert as the commercial suggests, but it doesn’t tell you that he’s not an impartial judge. The biggest thing that’s missing from this ad is why the Mac could be called the finest desktop PC on the market.
This is a common theme when these commercials attack Vista. They have no problem throwing out one-liners but don’t have the information to back it up, and thus the consumer is led to believe Vista is a bad OS but they’re not quite sure how that got down that path.
Even though this particular ad didn’t target Vista, it’s these types of ads that Apple has been using to mislead the consumer about PCs and Vista.
No More Snap Judgments … Give Vista a Chance
Vista is a good operating system that has garnered a bad reputation that has trickled down from Microsoft competitors, through the media, and into the mainstream psyche.
Maybe the biggest reason that Vista has received so much criticism is because Microsoft is such a big target.
It’s pretty easy to hit the side of a barn with a baseball, just like it’s pretty easy to go after the industry leader. Microsoft has obviously reached the top of the software world, and they know as well as anybody that once you reach the top you become an easier target.
If you still have doubts about Vista, give it a try or “test drive” it for free.
It’s fine if you don’t like it, but at least you’ll have the facts to backup your opinion because you tried it out.
Also, if you are an Apple fan and a Mac lover can you do something for me?
The next time someone asks you, “How come you have a Mac?” don’t answer with, “Because I hate PCs.”
Don’t be like the “Mac vs. PC” commercials, give me an actual reason why you like Macs more than PCs or Mac OS X and Leopard more than Vista … and maybe I can understand better why Vista has garnered so much criticism.
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Related Posts:
- iTunes on Vista
- How to Share Files between Mac and PC — Leopard and Vista
- Microsoft’s Windows Vista Mojave Experiment’s Real Result
- Windows Vista – Is It Really That Bad?
- Vista Ready or Not …
- Skipping Windows Vista — What’s the Best Strategy for IT Pros?
- Upgrading to Vista? Watch out!
87 Responses to “Vista is for Suckers and Mac Users are Better Than You”
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Dizzle Says:
May 19th, 2008 at 4:35 pm
Oh the irony!
You mean that they have a sense of humour and like funny commercials. How about let’s look at how YOU look at the consumer:
Hey Pot, Meet Kettle. You’re both black.
And I hate Vista because it sucks. Yes, I used it. I used it before I had a Mac. I run Windows on my Mac. I owned a copy of Vista. I sold it and bought me a copy of XP.
Quite a rant though. Oh and Vista is butt ugly.
Zach Says:
May 19th, 2008 at 5:02 pm
Dizzle,
Thank you for responding to the article. I respect your thoughts on Vista but I think your response illustrates the point I was making in the article.
“I hate Vista because it sucks.”
This is the type of statement that characterizes what most people think about Vista. They don’t like it but they can’t give you a reason why. “Because it sucks” doesn’t illustrate to me what the problem with Vista is.
Also, I don’t think my quote you put in your post can be compared to the Apple commercials. I’m not making blanket statements about Vista. I’m asking two questions: What’s the reason you don’t like Vista and if you don’t really have a reason then is it possible that Apple commercials or the media have anything to do with it?
I think the question that I would pose to you again is the last sentence in the article:
Don’t be like the “Mac vs. PC” commercials, give me an actual reason why you like Macs more than PCs or Mac OS X and Leopard more than Vista … and maybe I can understand better why Vista has garnered so much criticism.
Thanks for your response!
Dizzle Says:
May 19th, 2008 at 6:25 pm
Zach, I find it hard to take anyone seriously who says “Vista is an excellent operating system.” Even Monkey Boy acknowledged it was a “work in progress.”
Also I find it just plain retarded when people get their thongs all in a bunch over silly commercials (and there are some Mac users who do too).
Vista is bloated. It is slow. It freezes. The UACs are annoying as crap. It crashes. Shall I go on? It is unenjoyable to navigate. It is hideously ugly. It is user-unfriendly. The registry is an abomination. I was a Windows fan for over a decade and not your average dumbass user, but a semi-coherent one. It is night and day since switching to the Mac.
I note you didn’t answer the point that you were just as smug as you were claiming others were in judging consumers. You think people think things just cause other people said so, and you dare to judge commercials which are obvious satire?
Please. Cry me a river.
And fair warning – because I do sense you may not have that great of a sense of humour considering how much time you have spent on this piece, I will be posting about it on my blog. My blog is a satire blog. Don’t get all upset. I find I have to explain satire to Vista fans – I suspect that most Vista fans are blondes. My blog is a satire blog about the life of a rabid apple fangrl gone wild. Just fair warning.
It does. I am sorry if I don’t think I am obligated to provide a technical journal on why it does. You make the ridiculously arrogant claim that consumers think Vista sucks because Apple told them so or someone else told them so. I responded to your challenge. I thought Vista sucked because I used it but IRONICALLY I thought Macs sucked BECAUSE WINDOWS USERS TOLD ME SO, and I bought it.
How long have you used a Mac? I bet I have much more experience on Vista than you have on OSX. I might be wrong but I doubt it. I find most windoze fanbois have never used a Mac, while most apple kool-aid drinkers used to be avid windoze users. Like me.
Lastly
Yeah, like that is what all of “us” say right? Come on dude. I really think you might want to start looking at your own ‘tude really.
When you are getting all uptight over some humourous commercials…. well…. that’s odd.
Dizzle Says:
May 19th, 2008 at 6:37 pm
Oh something else oh so enjoyable:
Even with XP I got at least three blue screens yesterday… but this one takes the cake:
Did you have to cross your fingers behind your back to say that with a straight face? I have used that excuse for a tool, and well, its a tool alright, but not in a good way. It is a surefire way to crash quite a few HP systems though.
So How Come I Have a Mac?
Let me count the ways:
It just works.
It is enjoyable.
It makes me love technology again rather than feeling like I am wrestling with it.
OSX is inuitive.
The little details that I find continuously delight me rather than the little things I would find would Windows that continually frustrated me.
It is beautiful.
I have found more free programs for a Mac.
Having a place where I can go and speak with a real live person face to face with any questions rather than Habib in India is a plus.
The customer service is awesome.
The Mac community is awesome.
Doing podcasts is frightenly simple.
I could go on. Hey, I will post a clip from this podcaster called The Get-It Done Guy. He has kept a log of how much time he spent troubleshooting Windows problems over the years because he is a consultant on how to work less and do more. His conclusion? It is much more worth it to simple reinstall Windows at least once a year. He switched to a Mac a little over a year ago. He has already saved all the time he wasted on Windows problems combined.
I am sorry to bust your bubble, but right now, OSX is a far superior OS. Maybe one day Windows will be. Maybe it is going to be Ubuntu. But it ain’t Vista. Vista on its own has done more to make Apple more money than anything Jobs could dream up.
Dizzle Says:
May 19th, 2008 at 6:41 pm
I wish you had an edit button. I will comment more on my blog. Remember… it is a snarky blog. I wish you all the best with your Vista loyalty. You’ll need it. But all sarcasm aside, I really really think you need to look at your own attitude in your own piece – if you don’t like those kinds of attitudes, change begins with oneself. Now me, I love snarky satire, so snipe away at Macs – just don’t act like you aren’t. If Windows could come up with some snarky commercials I would give them the big high five. Have you seen the Lenovo ad mocking the MacBook Air? It is HILARIOUS.
Kasia Grabowska Says:
May 19th, 2008 at 6:56 pm
Here’s the Lenovo ad Dizzle was talking about and some others … just for fun …
Lenovo X300: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hnOCUkbix0
Mac Book Air Parody: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0ERgZ9dztk
South Park Mac vs PC: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Id_kGL3M5Cg
Mac vs PC vs Linux Sequel – Shouth Park Style: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4iyksLeo7w&NR=1
Zach Says:
May 19th, 2008 at 7:00 pm
Dizzle:
I’m glad you’ve taken such an interest in my article. I’m also glad a Mac owner finally gave some reasons for why they own a Mac. One down, about 8% of the market to go.
Dizzle Says:
May 19th, 2008 at 7:34 pm
That ad is freakin’ hilarious. And I love the MacBook Air. But that ad is GOLDENLY funny. Bravo.
Dizzle Says:
May 19th, 2008 at 7:39 pm
The South Park one was great too. The second one, eh, okay. Lenovo’s is the best.
At the risk of being accused of being an anti-XP subversive check this:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8133793402003907155&q=the+bird+and+the+bee+XP&ei=36QxSK2AO4O8rwLdhbjbCQ
(only if you have seen the Mac “Again and Again” one – otherwise you won’t get it)
Dizzle Says:
May 19th, 2008 at 7:42 pm
Oh and Zach, you naughty boy – your whole Mossberg thing was very poorly reasoned. I am going to have a LOT of fun with that one. Or were you kidding and I am not getting the joke? Because if you were serious that such was an example of deceptive marketing, then really – don’t get a Mac, get a grip.
Dutch Moonlander Says:
May 19th, 2008 at 10:35 pm
Hey, who’s this Dizzle guy?
Zach, you nailed it on the head by looking at the ads and pointing to the fact that Mac is massively on the attack to secure its seat at the table. Although I’m still weary of the Mac conspiracy to make me feel like an idiot for using a PC (I also solve most basic math equations with an abacus), the fact is, Microsoft dominates the market.
I am a casual user, without much knowledge of the operations of a computer beyond basic specs and free cell. But I also am a Cultural Studies graduate student and have a nose for advertising texts. The ads, as I think Zach is right to point out, make the choice simple. Are you cool or not? In consumer culture, image replaced functionality during the Harding administration.
Now, I myself still run XP, but have been on a PC running Vista, and I experienced some complications, mostly I think because it had a poor connection (dial-up) and had been inundated with a ten-year-old girls website cookies without a soul in the house knowing how to clean house. There, I’ve said it. Vista has the chance to suck. But Zach never denies that here. He just says the average user (consumer) should be given the chance to decide whether it works without simplifying the comparison to the participation in one computer culture over the other. “Because it sucks” is not an answer. If you were one of my undergrads, Dizzle, even if you were going for the Zen “What is courage: this is.” approach to exam day, I would hope you like wearing the cone-shaped hat that says “dunce” that they always had in the cartoons.
Sharp observations, Zach. And handsome to boot.
Michael Says:
May 20th, 2008 at 12:09 pm
Responding to Drizzle:
> Vista is bloated.
(I’m tempted to respond in kind and just say “no it isn’t”.) How about something to back this up? Even if you just make up numbers, at least it will look like you tried.
Consider the large amount of junk bundled with every version of OS/X (which, after all, is nothing more than some paint and glitter slapped onto an ancient version of Unix). For one tiny example, every copy of OS/X comes with a DVD CODEC (which you pay for, because Apple believes consumers are too easily confused by “choices” to ever give them any) — even if you buy a Mac without a DVD drive.
> It is slow.
Not on my Laptop, or desktops. In fact, on my previous laptop I replaced XP with Vista and found the performance about the same. Most things happen so quickly you have to use specialized tools to measure the difference.
On the other hand, the slowest computers I’ve ever used were Macs. Yes, I probably could have added more memory or something, but Macs are supposed to “just work”.
I did talk to a Mac “expert”. We wiped the hard drive and re-installed the OS (this is “just works?”) to see how the base performace was. It sucked. He suggested that the LESS THAN THREE YEAR OLD MAC was “obsolete”.
I never got the answer to two questions:
1) The computer didn’t change itself during the past couple of years, so was this performance (e.g. many seconds after clicking on an icon before a program would load) considered acceptable by Mac users just a couple of years ago? It certainly wasn’t in any business environment using Windows.
2) A slightly over TWO YEAR OLD MAC is OBSOLETE? Sheesh! If I had paid as much for a PC as that Mac costs when it was new, and only two years later was told the only real solution to poor performance was to buy a new one, I’d be pretty angry.
> It freezes.
I’ve been using Vista daily, all day long, on multiple computers for well over a year. I’m still waiting for it to freeze.
I have seen freezes on computers running Vista. I repaired/replaced the faulty hardware, and the computers (usually over two years old) ran great.
> The UACs are annoying as crap.
Clicking on an extra “OK” button the few times I make a change to the OS itself seems less annoying to me than having a computer as easy to break into as a Mac, but maybe that’s a matter of personal preference.
> It crashes.
Mine doesn’t. Neither do any of the dozen or so I deal with on a regular basis.
Oh, I almost forgot: I did get it to crash once. It turned out to be a bug in iTunes. Who wrote that again?
> It is unenjoyable to navigate.
Finally, something easy to disprove. I enjoy it. Very much. If I want to run some program I don’t use very often (say, iTunes — see above for why), I click on the Start button, type “itunes”, and press enter. Maybe you should work on your typing skills?
Or maybe you meant YOU don’t enjoy navigating it. To each his own.
> It is hideously ugly.
That’s just plain silly or ignorant. Out of the box, I like the look of Vista better than OS/X, but it really doesn’t matter. Either one can be so completely customized that complaining about the way it looks is either lazy, or completely disingenuous.
> It is user-unfriendly.
I moved my mother-in-law from XP to Vista. She doesn’t know the difference. She is about as computer-hostile as anyone I know.
I’ve TRIED to give several users OS/X (believe me — I would give them ANYTHING if it was “user-friendly” enough to get them off my case). They were completely baffled. NOTHING works they way they expect it to.
The worst feature seems to be the complete lack of any visual connection between the menu bar and the application Window. You have to make sure focus is on the application you intend to interact with before you click on a menu item.
The other big complaint was that things kept moving around. They would spent a LOT more time figuring out where to click.
Finally, it was very hard to tell at a glance what applications were currently actually running. They did eventually learn to look for the tiny little black triangle above the program icon, but they all seemed to like the Windows task bar much better.
OS/X has some nice features, but none of them are worth the hefty price — and I have yet to find anything that a Mac can do that can’t be done cheaper on a Windows computer. I have found a LOT that I can do on Windows computers that I can’t do on a Mac.
1) The Macbook Air looks cool, but it is WAY less powerful than the (much lighter) Windows laptop I was able to buy EIGHT YEARS ago (from Sony).
2) I have never seen anything at all like the GPS software from Delorme that I use on my Windows PC.
3) A LOT of “niche” applications aren’t available at all in the tiny Mac market. None of them are need by very many people, but most users need at least one. That’s why so many Mac users like the fact that they can now run Windows. You certainly don’t see much market for the ability to run Mac applications on Windows computers.
Enjoy your Mac. Computers should be fun. Just lose the smugness, OK? You have nothing to be smug about. And the “buyer’s remorse” that seems to cause most of it (when you realize your expense Mac can’t do anything a much cheaper Windows computer can) should ease over time.
Mark Says:
May 20th, 2008 at 5:41 pm
I won’t address Drizzle’s comments, but my experiences with Vista have been very positive. Before I began using Vista for my work PC for months ago, the machine on my desk was a PowerMac running OS X, so I consider myself unbiased.
I use what the company gives me, and I have had no issues with Vista to date.
From home, after reviewing what both Apple and Microsoft’s partners have available, I am leaning toward replacing my current 7-year old Sony Vaio with an HP running Vista to take advantage of Vista’s media management capabilities. For producing media, I will consider a Mac laptop to run some of Apple’s apps like Logic and Final Cut Pro. I’ve used these as well as Windows-based equivalents like Sonic Foundry / Sony Acid and Vegas for years, and enjoy using both.
Let’s face it, this whole debate really ended over ten years ago years ago when Microsoft invested in Apple – see the original press release at http://www.apple.com/ca/press/1997/08/AppleMicrosoft.html
I vote with my dollars, and in my opinion, Apple makes a good product, but not a “better” product. YMMV.
Dizzle Says:
May 20th, 2008 at 8:45 pm
>>Dizzle:
I’m glad you’ve taken such an interest in my article. I’m also glad a Mac owner finally gave some reasons for why they own a Mac. One down, about 8% of the market to go. >>
And I don’t believe you if you are seriously claiming that no other Mac user ever has.
And Michael, Michael – you too are a veritable fount of irony:
>>Enjoy your Mac. Computers should be fun. Just lose the smugness, OK? >>
Remember that last comment. Okay moving on…
>>You have nothing to be smug about. And the “buyer’s remorse” that seems to cause most of it (when you realize your expense Mac can’t do anything a much cheaper Windows computer can) should ease over time.>>>
Physician heal thyself. After all you do play a psychologist on the Internet. FWIW both of my Macs are cheaper than the equivalent PCs. Sorry to see you buying into an urban legend.
But anyways, it is Zach’s article, and Zach is the one I am interested in responding too. I do hope actually to provide a near line by line response as to the naughtiness in your analysis. I prolly will do it a piece at a time – sleep has to happen sometimes. Between being an apple fangrl, I am a podcaster (not on Apple), a staff writer (yes about Apple-related products), a blogger (two blogs, third one to be added next week, only one about Apple), and the co-owner of 15K plus theology debate site. So providing Michael with the proof of obvious bloatedness of Vista really isn’t high on my list of priorities. If he can’t see it, then he probably thinks Rosie O’Donnel is svelte and sexy. And there just ain’t no cure for that.
I really would like to see The Macelope respond to this, maybe I will shoot him a link. He is far more pointed than me. (pun intended, and no I am not going to explain to a roomful of Vista fanbois, but please for the love of all that is holy, please tell me none of you got a Vista tattoo, ‘kay?)
(Why do I keep Windows for the one person who insinuated it was for some dastardly mac void? Paltalk. Yep, a stupid chat client, which has a Mac version in beta right now). After that, its hasta la vista…. hehe,that’s funny. Even though I am using XP.
And yes I do video editing, photo editing, web design, work suite items (I am a legal assistant)…..
And for the record for the reading impaired person above. I said I was a fangrl. Girl usually means female. Dude usually doesn’t mean female. So who is this Dizzle dude is quite obtuse. I am not a dude. I am a chick. And you simply click my name and you are led to my Apple blog which from there you can find links to all my other sites. That’s who I am.
Dizzle Says:
May 20th, 2008 at 8:48 pm
Correction, he said “guy” not “dude.” Doesn’t help, girls usually aren’t guys…. unless you’re in Amsterdam or watching The Crying Game.
Dizzle Says:
May 20th, 2008 at 11:17 pm
Zach, I forgot to ask again since I don’t think you answered. How much time have you spent on OSX? You might surprise me since you are an IT professional but it is generally the case that most Vista fanbois and Mac-bashers have spent little to no time on a Mac, or more specifically on a Mac with OSX. I have never used OS9 but it is my understanding that it wasn’t so hot.
Michael’s comments about costs are still cracking me up. I love it when people make asses out of themselves by assuming. Here is my tech philosophy. I LOVE tech. I LOVE computers. I don’t care for or look for cheap. All of my Windows machines have been souped up machines. An HP laptop I bought about four years ago cost me about $2700.00 at that time (which btw is the one the Vista tool kept crashing). It is still running XP Media Center. Last October I bought an HP notebook/tablet for about $1400.00. It ran Vista. I had already switched my desktop to Mac by then, so it Vista had very little to nothing to do with my switching decision, and I was happy with XP. Vista was so horrid on that tablet, and the just general user experience was horrible (and HP’s customer service has gone way down), that I sold it and bought a MacBook with similar and/or superior specs for $400 less. How do you like them pickles?
My desktop is a very expensive machine. I have a MacPro. Before deciding on the MacPro I was looking at the high end gaming type machines because I have found that gaming machines (though I am not a gamer) just provide the best experience and don’t outdate very easily. I was looking at anywhere from $3K-$4.5K for the machine that I would want. As I said, I am not cheap – not with Windows or any other OS. I got my quad-core 3.0ghz four bay MacPro with 2 gigs of RAM for around $3.5K IIRC, cheaper than a windows machine I was looking at. I sprung in another hundred bucks and upgraded the RAM myself to 4 gigs. It is upgradeable to 32 gigs of ram btw.
So stop with the nonsense. I still have one windows machine, primarily for courtroom work for one gripe I have with Apple is that they assume everyone WANTS a webcam in their monitor. I don’t – Federal Court doesn’t allow laptops equipped with cams in the court room.
As far as a machine being obselete after two years,sorry but I don’t buy the story as told. I can make some guesses – it was underpowered when it was initially purchased (which is why I always buy more than I need and my HP laptop which is four years old will last me another four years and this MacPro could conceivably last me a decade). It could be a “victim” of a major design switch i.e. moving from PowerPC to Intel. that was disruptive. Your insinuation that such is typical with Apple is an outright falsehood.
Now Vista being bloated… okay I can’t resist because that is fact that is simply not even controversial which is why Microsoft is being advised by many tech professionals to do what Apple did when it went to OSX – get rid of all the bloat from having to support legacy issues. This is undeniable. Second, the registry just sucks and bloats. That is inherent in Windows and also uncontroversial.
Sorry Vista fanbois, but dems the facts.
BTW I just watched Pirates of Silicone Valley. Great flick. Now I know that Gates is just as big of a bunghole as Jobs at times. They are definitely each other’s white whales. Oh dear me, did I actually say that Jobs can be an ass at times? I must sacrifice my cat while bowing to Cupertino, excuse me while I go and take care of that. I am sure you understand.
Zach Says:
May 21st, 2008 at 11:13 am
Dizzle:
I’ve spent quite a bit of time using OS X. I’m currently having my assistant go through my OS X log sheet to find out the exact amount of time I’ve spent on it. Seriously though, the amount of time I’ve spent using OS X is significant. The point of this article was not to bash OS X, which I don’t think I did.
I wanted to make one more point concerning “Mac bashing”. If you read my article I am not bashing Macs, I’m bashing the misleading advertising tactics Apple uses to bash Vista. If you’re a Mac girl, that’s great. If Michael likes Vista, that’s great too. I merely sought to point out the falsehoods being presented about Vista so that the casual user could see the other side of the coin concerning Vista without a biased slant.
Also, Dizzle, the way you’ve defended Apple in your previous posts I thought you were maybe Steve Jobs’ mom, or at least his sister. But, the final paragraph of your most recent post dispels that theory. Reading that makes me downgrade you to more than likely Steve Jobs’ aunt or maybe cousin.
In all seriousness though, I’ve had a lot of fun with this article and the responses, and I know that everyone that has posted a response has done so in good fun. Keep the responses coming because I love to hear everyone’s different points of view.
Dizzle Says:
May 21st, 2008 at 4:19 pm
Good thing you didn’t think I was Steve’s stalker!!! That is ijustine, not me. I took down my altar months ago. I am a huge fan of Jobs’ work, but I don’t deny he has a dark side in his personality – and I am not sure I could withstand it – but he is a fascinating character in his oddness.
I admitted right up front that I am a rabid Apple fangrl – no hiding that or pretending like I am not. What surprised in the Pirates movie was Gates’ dark side. Nothing said about Jobs was news to me, I have read all the biographies on him except Leander Kahney’s new one, but the things about Gates surprised me. He is not the happy go lucky goofball in my eyes any longer – but frankly someone not to be trusted (and yes I have the similar stories about Jobs – I just didn’t think Gates was like that – I may have though Microsoft in general was like that, but not Gates). Ballmer is about just what I expected.
The Mac-bashing I was referring to was more referring to some of the other commenters. Particularly Michael who accelerated the conversation to an unnecessary level by going on how I didn’t provide technical details when that is not what you asked me for – which I did provide for you as you asked. And then going on about how whether something is pretty or not is just what “YOU” think. Of course its what I think! Things like that are subjective. However, a lot of people think just like I do on that issue. And as far as hitting the start button and the search bar – I am not retarded, and he simply assumed that is what I meant by user-unfriendliness. It isn’t, and it wasn’t. I always used a nifty free Windows program called launchy (check it out, its pretty cool) as an application launcher so I had that feature even with XP, and launchy is much more aesthetically pleasing then the native Vista search bar. (not to mention that the Vista search box is a blatant copy cat of the Mac’s spotlight feature except they put in a different place and it doesn’t do one-tenth of what spotlight can do – and that is not disputable)
I heard a guy today (not a friend of mine – a podcast I listen to – a Windows guy who probably doesn’t even watch tv – he’s a busy preacher – rant about Vista because of his user experience – and that is my experience – and the experiences of others. People find those commercials funny because they hit on a core of truth. Shall we now say that Coke has made people think Pepsi is fake, because, after all, Coke is the “real thing.” Implying that everything else is not. This is capitalism folks.
Generally people hate Vista. This is just a fact. And I don’t think it can be blamed in any significant portion on Apple’s commercials. The commercials simply resonate on what people have already felt. I think you can see now that I am a geek girl, meaning I am around and talk about a lot of tech issues – and no one I know has a dislike for Vista because of some commercial. If anyone does, they are stupid – just as stupid as I was at one time for believing some of the nonsense that some windows users say about Macs that still are said like oh… you can’t right click. There are few programs that are incompatible. They are horridly overpriced. Those things simply are not true yet are repeated constantly to people who likely have never had the chance to use a Mac for themselves, UNLIKE the audience of the Apple commercials who at least 92% use Windows and have the opportunity to check out Vista for themselves.
However, I think you inadvertantly did a little bit of Mac-bashing yourself and taking commercials way too seriously and expecting from them something else than they are. I am pretty consistent on this position, i.e. my thumbs up to Lenovo for their creative ad countering the MacBook Air.
I really do hope to prepare a response to your article, or at least bits of it, and I will point out where I think you do some Mac-bashing. Sometimes we don’t see how we might come across to others at times with some comments. But all in all its been a pleasure speaking with you, and I think maybe you need to think your position on how Mac-users (forget about the commercials a second)
I just really Zach think you need to step back a little that’s all. Anyways, I have already said more than I intended to – if you see linkbacks in your control panel you will see if and when I post some responses.
Once again PLEASE REMEMBER THAT MY BLOG IS A SATIRE BLOG and don’t be offended that I use terms like vistard and wintard. The satire is that I am overblowing the fangrlishness and thus make fun of the Apple community in our zeal just as much as Windows. So if I call you a vistard, it is in my satircal personae okay? Think of Fake Steve Jobs – a larger than life pretense.
Dizzle Says:
May 21st, 2008 at 8:12 pm
Hey Zach check it out
http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/126/believe-it-or-not-hes-a-pc.html
Microsoft hired a PR firm that is most likely to strike back. Things could get very very interesting. Please just let the ads be funny.
And some good kick-tail ads against Apple would make me happy. Why? Because they would piss Steve off – and that’s when he does his best work IMHO.
So we might have a wee bit of fun on our hands, and then you can came to my blog and chastise me if I bitch and moan about the ads (actually I am sure I will in jest, most of what is there is in jest – but maybe in seriousness)
This article seems to agree with you on the power of Apple’s ads
http://www.crunchgear.com/2008/05/21/meet-the-men-behind-microsofts-ad-revival/
(same subject matter slightly different article)
As I said, it is somewhere in between. They amplify what was already resonating in the consumer base. You see, for example, Microsoft is going to have to focus on keeping people from switching to the Mac – a large demographic. If they try to show the Mac sucks in hopes to get switchers back, it won’t work, no matter how awful they make OSX look. Why? Mac users know better. That is why I have a higher opinion of the consumer base than those who assign too much power to these ads – they work because there is truth in them in the minds of the target, who have the opportunity to know – they have used windows.
It is hard to brainwash people against something they have good experience with. Not even Dear Leader Jobs with his RDF could do that. He exploited the fact that people were having bad experiences. Did Apple exaggerate them? Of course – that is what ads do. Was IBM really Big Brother in that 1984 famous Apple ad and all those who worked with IBM products drones? Its called satirical hyperbole.
Microsoft’s tactic is going to have to be different. And unlike those somewhat pessimistic articles, I think with this PR company they have a good shot at making things interesting. However, I am fairly confident that Apple may be able to shoot back better. Maybe not. But nothiing right now could ever make me switch back to windows. Will something change in the future? Who knows. But absolutely NOTHING right now would do it. I am so in love with my Macs it hurts.
Dizzle Says:
May 21st, 2008 at 8:20 pm
And for Michael who thinks I am just pulling everything out of my rump, here is some interesting reading for you:
http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/146035/coders_tell_why_theyre_avoiding_vista.html
unless PCWorld is too biased? I will let you know when I have two very interesting audio clips loaded to my server as well.
And I did want to address that obsolete in two years crapola again – it is a FACT that Macs return their value more than PCs… and that a significant percentage of Mac users are still using PowerPC G4 machines – not even G5 – and running Leopard on them.
How many PCs that old can run Vista with all its features? Yeah I bought a Vista-ready piece of crap desktop that I have since sold. It was able to run the barest vanilla version of Vista – something over which there is a huge lawsuit brewing about. The whole Vista capable thing has been pretty deceptive – when someone hears it runs Vista, they are expecting the full Vista experience. I was still a Windows fan back then and I was pissed at the deception – on HPs part, not particularly Microsofts.
But very very few of these ultra thin margin cheapo computers that are as old as the Mac G4s and G5s could run Vista. Yet a great deal of those Macs can and do run Leopard.
You are talking about of your fanny.
Dizzle Says:
May 21st, 2008 at 8:29 pm
Even though Mark honoured with the title of Drizzle, here’s a word of advice. Don’t go with HP. I have been a long-time HP user and their service and quality IMHO has gone done severely just over the past few years. Seriously. Consider some other windows machine if you must, but HP of today isn’t the same HP when I bought my Media Center laptop that I still have and runs great (though it can’t run Vista – or atleast can’t run the test to determine if it can run Vista despite it having 2gigs of RAM a 3.0ghz processor and a zipping graphics card). I never buy a computer with less than 2 gigs of RAM. My two Macs right now have 4 gigs. That might become my new minimum.
My last customer service experience with HP was horrid beyond belief. I kid you not. I wanted to shoot myself.
For your video editing, do you really need Pro software? Have you checked out Premiere Elements? (PC only) – it does GREAT, and is under $100. If you haven’t check it out, do so. I used it for years to make some really cool stuff. That is one program I miss on the Mac, but I bought Final Cut Express which seems even more powerful, but I haven’t had time to learn its own particular nuances yet. I loved Premiere Elements.
See? I am actually giving you alternatives (PC ones) that might suit your media needs.
Though Garageband is all kinds of wonderful. Especially if you podcast.
Zach Says:
May 22nd, 2008 at 10:28 am
Dizzle:
I know we could go back and forth with this forever, but I wanted you to take a look at this blog. It’s not quite as inflammatory as you or myself, but it makes some interesting points. Enjoy.
http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=446
Cathal Says:
May 22nd, 2008 at 11:29 am
Hi Zach,
I both completely agree and disagree with the statement that Vista is an excellent OS.
First of all, I run and love both Windows and Mac platforms. Secondly, I’m a huge fan of win2k, XP and 2003.
Thirdly, after a win2k-centric hassle-free existence, I’ve had huge problems with Vista..nothing to do with application compatibility, third-party hardware or resource issues, but primarly–I believe–with UAC.
Having reloaded the OS from scratch 3 times (something unheard of in my previous windows experiences) I finally got the system stable, but had to disable UAC.
With UAC enabled, the system would lock up in ANY application, while engaged with any task..now, all is good :-)
So, now Vista works perfectly for me, but how an average user would cope with something which is meant to be exhaustively tested and, above all, stable, is anyone’s guess.
Love the training and thanks for the opportunity to discuss!
PS yes, I am running SP1 and yes, it did happen on plain vanilla builds with and without SP1
Gary Drumm Says:
May 22nd, 2008 at 11:41 am
I wrote almost the exact same thing in my blog a few weeks ago. “Vista is bad because it sucks”… greatness!
The fact is people DON’T CARE what OS is running their computer. They just want to be able to read their email, surf the Internet, connect to their office computer, organizae pictures, work on documents and spreadsheets, and maybe make and watch videos.
So how are they going to do that? Windows, Mac, Linux, it’s all basically the same thing under the hood: A processor, memory, hard drive, video card, etc. To me, it’s Mac user’s who are “drinking the Cool-aid™”.
In my opinion, Mac is at the low-end of the techie intelect scale. It’s the n00b OS for people who just want to book a vacation on an airline. Linux, of course, is on the other end of that scale, it’s the highly-advanced OS that teaches you how to build an airplane and take your trip on “Me Airlines”.
Windows sort of falls somewhere in between. It’s simple enough that most halfway intelligent people can figure out how to get around and get things done, yet advanced enough that it’s the MOST widely-used OS in the world. While MS and Vista may not be perfect, they have certainly had a dramatic impact on how we use computers every day.
So the Mac or PC ads, while entertaining and funny, are nothing more than the loser whining and picking on the winner, and that always makes for good TV.
Gosia Grabowska Says:
May 22nd, 2008 at 12:02 pm
Hey guys,
I have said this before and I will say it again: I hate Vista. Alright .. hate is a strong word .. but I really, really, REALLY don’t like Vista.
I gave it a shot few times and every time it failed me. I even saw training videos on it thinking that maybe I am doing something wrong… nope. That wasn’t the case.
It takes me twice as long to do anything on Vista than on my old, good XP. Copying files – twice as long. Trying to view my network drives – 20 times as long. Configuring anything – after assuming that I know where to configure it on Vista, after clicking 5 pop-up windows (security you say? hahaha – I don’t even read them anymore! They are nothing but annoying)..it still takes twice as long to “take” the configuration.
I am sticking with XP until I am “forced” to upgrade to Vista.
Oh .. and I love the Mac commercials. :) They are awesome! Thanks for giving me the link to them .. hehe
I think I am going to get a Mac for my next computer. And no .. not because of the commercials :)
Anthony Akers Says:
May 22nd, 2008 at 12:44 pm
Vista is for suckers huh?
Seems to me that anyone that would spend three times as much for the same pile of diodes, capacitors and IC’s are the suckers. Vista is not a bad operating system, I remember about six years ago I heard this same tune about XP. Now it is the standard OS for Comsumer based and office based computers. You say Blue Screens? Blue screens only happen in direct Proportion to the amount of thought and knowlage that is put into designing a system regardless of the Operating system. Oh, the only reason you don’t see a blue screen on a MAC is that there is not one.
But if you think a Mac don’t not complain as much as a PC, It is just because you are not looking in the right place.
Galen Says:
May 22nd, 2008 at 12:56 pm
Scott:
I thought your article was very well stated and its basic premise regarding the MAC advertising sound. I personally find the MAC advertising false and misleading.
However, as far as the requirements to run Vista, the minimum requirements will just suffice for Vista Basic alone. The minimum “recommended requirements” which call for 1GB of RAM will reasonably handle Vista Home Premium (Aero incl) and one or two other applications (depending on individual requirements).
Since we bought our PCs to be truly multi-tasking, anything less than 2GB of RAM, imho, is just not enough. The user who only checks email, and does an occasional letter may get along just fine with 1 GB of RAM until he adds that resource hogging Brand Name Security Suite. ;)) In my opinion the user would then be better off with XP and 512MB of RAM.
I make the above mention because as one who works on PCs for a living, I am rather upset by OEMs who market entry level Vista machines to consumers who will do more than the bare basics. I have clients who couldn’t understand why their computing experience with a 1GB Vista machine was slower than their 512MB XP machine. Adding memory resolves their issues, but it doesn’t make their purchase experience any sweeter.
I personally like Vista and my clients who have bought properly equipped Vistas for their needs also like Vista and they still have spent less money than they would on a MAC and they have a greater flexibility in application choice.
My current XP users are hesitant to move to Vista for some of the very reasons you mentioned.
IMO, when Vista was first released, third party software manufacturers were terribly negligent in writing the necessary changes to co-exist with Microsoft’s new security, but it was a step seriously needed (but that’s another topic). Nevertheless, they had plenty of time. Then you had peripheral manufacturers, who at least appeared to want to cash in by making people buy new printers, AIOs, etc rather than offering them new drivers. Again, they had plenty of time to write them. All of this nonsense also led to Vista’s poor image.
Thankfully these issues are now past. It is still unfortunate, however, that Apple will keep marketing these distortions and further confusing the average customer.
Apple makes a wonderful product, period, but from my perspective it is no better than a properly equipped Vista PC. This becomes particularly apparent when you take into account the initial purchase acquistion, the cost of any hardware upgrades, and the cost of repairs. Nevertheless I’m thankful for Apple. Compeitition is good and it forces everyone to strive for a better product.
It matters not to me whether one likes Ubuntu, Leopard, or Vista. Everyone has their preferences, but what makes some people feel like they have to convince you that there OS is “better or else…” is to me just plain silly.
Scott, thanks again for a well done piece.
Zach Says:
May 22nd, 2008 at 12:58 pm
The title is meant to be facetious. Please read the entire article.
D-Dan Says:
May 22nd, 2008 at 2:11 pm
In response to the final request to Mac users at the end of the article to give an answer other than “because I hate PCs”.
Surely, a more telling question would be “Oh, OK, and why do you hate PCs”.
And if I’m honest, I don’t sit in any camp. I use XP, because it serves the purpose. The software I use, and the hardware I have all work with it admirably. I tried Vista, and find it still needs to mature, but that isn’t a criticism.
I haven’t used MacOS since V8.1, and I didn;t get along with that, either.
I’m not about to go out and spend £1,000 + (UK) to buy a prebuilt machine to run MacOS now (My own PCs are self builds) so I’ll probably never get to do the direct comparison.
I dual boot linux, and that suits me too. Maybe if Mac stopped concentrating on a single hardware standard, and released a generic H/W compatible OS, then they would gain more market share, but for enthusiasts, the ability to upgrade piecemeal using a plethora of components is a big attraction.
Oh, and since when did “PC” stop meaning “Personal Computer” and start meaning “Wintel” box?
Drew Says:
May 22nd, 2008 at 3:26 pm
It really has reached that point again about the bashing of each other. XP was bashed when it came out, both by Linux and Apple. Yet it survived and is the leading OS in the world today. It may be the same thing with Vista in a few years time AFTER the third party providers work out the glitches they have with the apps working on this new OS.
As to Dizzle’s comment about Vista crashing my experience will say the same thing on the other hand. Every Mac that I had crashed everytime I loaded a “Mac-friendly” version of AutoCAD on it. And I still have that same problem with Leopard. I loaded AutoCAD 2008 on it and it didn’t just freeze up, it CRASHED COMPLETELY. Would that be saying I am the dumbest unluckiest guy on this planet? In the business I work with I am the network administrator and software installer at the same time. We bought 3 Macs (cause they were cheaper than the PCs) and ended up spending more to get them restarted after installing AutoCAD on them, and they haven’t restarted to this date. So we have had to revert back to PCs that are running Vista on them. And as stated, installing and running these apps in their native format most times solves the issue of these apps crashing.
I have nothing against the Macs. They are nice machines and appear to be rich in media content. But when one needs to run apps that are processing and memory hogs then the truth is stick with a PC. One can max and trick them out even higher than the Mac dares to go. I have a generic PC at home that costed me in excess of $7000 that I put together for my own media and gaming experience. The speed and stability of this system, running Vista Premium, cannot be matched by ANY Mac. On the other hand, when I want content rich web browsing nothing can compare to the experience I have on the Mac.
Both are good in their own way. By the way I think that the ads by Mac are humourous, but still wont give Apple the push they need to unseat the domination MS has in the market. Neither will Linux. Ubuntu will stay in the niche where the tech geeks prefer it to be. Apple will stay in their own corner. Microsoft MAY still dominate the market. People like me will still pick and choose what we want to appreciate, whether it’s Vista, Leopard or Ubuntu.
Tech geeks rule… may the force be with you all
Merciful_Death Says:
May 22nd, 2008 at 3:46 pm
I find the article to be well written.
I find the responses to it to be typical forum conversation:
- Some anecdotal evidence twisted to be empirical fact
- Personal attacks
- Deliberate misquoting to try and invalidate a poster’s entire argument.
I will not bother attacking anyone or anyone’s post. I’ll leave that to others.
My experiences have been mostly good in my 20-ish years of computer use.
My first computer, a used Commodore-64 with a bad contact on the cartridge tab. A little soldering to touch up the lead, and perfect.
My first PC a Dell 286 machine, when everyone was bashing Dells (”they suck”, “They crash”, “The processor overheats”). I used that machine for YEARS, and my brother used it for even more years before he finally upgraded.
I have used Windows 1.0, Windows 2.0, Windows 3.1, Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows NT, Windows 2000, Windows XP, and Windows Vista-64.
All with no problems caused by the Windows client. All of my problems have been caused by other programs (remember AOL in the early 90’s???) or my own failed attempts to make program modifications.
I chose Vista-64, over my own objections based on word-of-mouth anti-Vista campaigns, so I could run a gaming machine with piles and piles of RAM.
I installed without a single problem, even though I had no manual for the software.
I expected all kinds of problems, but again the only problems were from other programs and my own tinkering.
My point I guess is that a succesful company will not deliberately sel products that will lose them customers, and an informed consumer/user is the best consumer/user.
If your computer and OS confound you, you ought to be willing to put at least a little work into it of your own.
You didn’t just jump behind the wheel and drive, you took time to learn.
You didn’t just unwrap your first bicycle and start the tour de France. You took time to learn.
Take time to learn. no matter what computer and OS you use. Your life can only get easier.
WilliPhilli Says:
May 22nd, 2008 at 7:43 pm
What is Dizzle so angry about?
Garry Holmes Says:
May 22nd, 2008 at 8:06 pm
My comment begins with a question, do you own Vista and have you tried to integrate it into your network. It requires everything to be newer and it is a money pit to have to upgrade every piece of software to have the compatibility needed to function. I have ultimate and it has given trouble from the get go. It finally crashed and I reloaded the system the way I know it should be and it works somewhat smoother. I have a lot of friends that come to me and have me to remove Vista and go back to XP Pro or 2000 Pro. By the way I have my own network and I am also an employee of the DoD and have responsibilities with a lot of PC’s. If I had known what I know now I would have purchased a Mac and loaded XP Pro on the Leopard third party OS to have run the PC programs that need when I travel. In conclusion I find the Mac commercials most accurate!
Dizzle Says:
May 23rd, 2008 at 11:34 am
Will – why do you project emotions unto me? I am certainly not angry, and I doubt that Zach – the person I am having the main conversation with does not think so.
One problem today in society – automatically strident opposition to something is anger or phobia. That is stupid.
You see, I can say an idea is stupid without being angry.
So in short, I am not angry, but I am curious why you felt the need to say that? Should I ask “why is Will so passive aggressive?” No?
Cool, then I won’t try to psychoanalyze you based on a primarily tongue in cheek conversation in many spots.
Dizzle Says:
May 23rd, 2008 at 11:40 am
SHHHHH Gary, allegedly no one has these severe problems and are mindless zombies following what Apple says, and Apple is just a big lying lump of turd picking on poor defenseless Microsoft.
I have heard many stories like yours Gary. In my circle, I know many IT professionals, and stories like yours are more the norm than the stories without problems.
I suppose the “Keep XP” campaign is Apple’s devious doing too?
Apple or no Apple, the majority of Windows users are happy with XP and don’t want Vista – for whatever reason. Apple and Ubuntu are benefiting.
And I would disagree with the article in saying Hardy Heron is not a viable option. Linux has changed a lot and is not a for geeks only thing. I would use Ubuntu before Vista any day.
I had to try to upgrade PowerDVD on Vista because the version I had was incompatible – know what it came down to after weeks with the tech support for the vendor? It was impossible to remove something that wormed its way inot Vista in the prior installation to allow it to install the updated version without reformating and reinstalling Vista. Nice eh?
But of course…. I am making that all up right? I was just brainwashed by the Apple commercials.
Roberto Says:
May 23rd, 2008 at 3:39 pm
Disclaimer:
I use Mac for my personal laptop (dual boot to Vista). I use Linux for my servers. I use Vista for coding work *at Microsoft*.
Vista’s process/thread preemptivenes sucks. A modern operating system should not allow any process to take over the entire machine were the responsiveness goes to 0%. Vista and XP do. OSX is much better at that. Linux wins on this hands down (run into a problem, switch to a terminal and kill the offending process).
OSX is much more visually pleasing and it has stupid little features that make my experience much more comfortable. For example,
- I have setup hot corners that when they get hit will move all windows away from the desktop – THEN I can do whatever I want in the desktop – THEN I can return all the windows the way they were. I can also use another hot corner.
- Same applies for the other hot corner where I can tell all the windows to arrange themselves in front of me to pick a different one.
- I can always do a quick zoom in of any portion of the desktop by holding a key and scrolling in.
It is simple little features like this that will make the experience much better.
Don’t get me started about killing a process… ‘End Task’ does not work… unless I do it more than once. And even that is a crab shot.
What about the Mac’s unique instancing of applications? If I click on Word, I get one Word process instance. If I click on the same icon I used to fire up the application again, I get *the same* Word instance back. THATS GREAT. Why? Do I really need 2 or 3 copies of Word running?!?!? No! HOWEVER, if I need multiple documents opened, then I can open another window *inside the same process instance* and it will show up fine. No need to context switch the process just to have another window… thus less work for the Process Scheduler.
My two-cents. Now back to coding.
Zach Says:
May 23rd, 2008 at 4:22 pm
I think one thing that may be getting lost here, and maybe I didn’t make it very clear in the article, is that I was discussing how the negative press and commercials about Vista effect the casual/inexperienced user. Casual users see, for example, these commercials and come to the conclusion that they don’t like Vista and don’t want Vista but they’re not really sure why.
The novice user may say, “I don’t want Vista because it has so many glitches.” Well, what glitches? What do you know about it? Most novice users don’t know anything about Vista but they’ve heard that it’s not very good, and thus the negative stigma this article is about.
As “tech geeks”, we can list 1,000 things for or against Vista, OS X, etc, but that’s not really the issue at hand. The issue the article was trying to focus on was the negative stigma and the perpetuation of these values through marketing drives by companies such as Apple.
With that in mind, the discussion has been excellent. Please keep it going. I look forward to reading more of your thoughts.
Dizzle Says:
May 24th, 2008 at 10:05 am
Zach, casual users have the opportunity to try it for themselves. Microsoft dominates the industry. Your point might be valid were the situation reversed. And plenty of casual users have direct testimony from other casual users of the glitches and problems.
Listen, since I love technology, when I bought my husband’s allegedly Vista-ready HP it came with a free upgrade coupon to get Vista when it came out. I went around my office excitedly talking about it. I WANTED to love it. I gave it a long chance. In fact, after I switched first to Mac and had to decide which Windows system to boot camp into, I chose Vista despite all the contrary advice because I wanted to like it.
And I couldn’t. It really just sucked. It delighted me in nothing. My Mac delights me every day with the little things. and really, it just works.
Yeah, yeah I know someone will come along and say “yeah but this didn’t work” – and again , slogans aren’t meant to be absolute truth. The truth that men are taller than women isn’t disproven by the fact that there are some very tall women.
As a more than general rule, the user experience, especially a new user, with the Mac is a pleasure. Now, let me know tell you how I felt the first month with my Mac which I wanted to love. I hated it. I couldn’t get out of thinking the Windows way after my years and years of experience. I wanted to love it the same way I wanted to love Vista – except the Mac succeeded. After a month I was golden. And some long term Windows people who say they switched and hated it oftentimes haven’t put in the effort to change a way of thinking – and it is a radically different change, at least it was for me. And I didn’t learn to love just because I bought the dang thing and I had no choice – I sell electronics left and right without qualm. I would have sold it. I don’t even feel obligated to keep something just because I bought it, I would have sold or bartered for something.
Now at one time I loved XP a lot. Now I tolerate it because the Mac experience is so much better. But I do have XP installed on my Mac for the very few programs I need it for, and also to help friends troubleshoot some issues (my husband still uses window, required for work,so it helps me). Oh and I work in a law office – we all use Windows. And have absolutely zero plans of EVER switching to Vista. I seriously think if it came down to it, because we would have to buy all new machines anyways, they would consider going Mac.
I long for that day. But there is a lot of legal software not yet available for the Mac. And it would require a lot of retraining, but they have me on staff me than willing to take on that task with joy.
Michael Says:
May 24th, 2008 at 10:12 am
I manage a network of over 200 computers. Anytime someone brings in a Vista machine for me to setup printers, or integrate into my network it is a disaster. Browsing the network takes 40min to open folders compared to seconds in XP. I don’t have a clue why this is but it happens every time. Even when I try to work in vista (not browse the network) things take forever. I am constantly waiting, and all of the machines have had 1gig ram or over, and are brand new laptops (1 desktop). I also have to admit that the security pop-ups are extremely frustrating so I remove them. For now I’m sticking to XP.
Dizzle Says:
May 27th, 2008 at 12:57 am
Oh here are some more experiences that I am sure will be dismissed by some of the ostriches in this discussion:
http://briancarper.net/2008/03/10/windows-vista-offal/
This is one thing that bothers me….. something seems missing from his list……
Oh that’s it! He doesn’t mention Apple ads as a reason he thinks Vista is offal. He just must have forgot. Doh!
Deny it all you wants. The proof has been given, and the answers have been ‘yeah but…”
Vista sucks. Bad.
» Brian Carpenter is my new hero i drank the kool-aid: clutching my dixie cup of apple goodness Says:
May 27th, 2008 at 1:04 am
[...] Which is especially ironic in light of the Vistards commenting on this article here, which if I ever get off my lazy butt which prefers to stare lovingly into the pixels of my Apple cinema display I will soundly trounce. Go read the comments, they are hilarious. How much crack does one have to smoke to think Vista is … wait, let me get the exact quote: The truth is that Vista is an excellent operating system. [...]
» A response to Zach - part one i drank the kool-aid: clutching my dixie cup of apple goodness Says:
May 27th, 2008 at 2:04 am
[...] A response to Zach – part one Posted in May 27th, 2008 by Dizzle in Windows fanbois (snicker) Zach wrote a very long piece called “Vista is for Suckers and Mac Users are Better Than You” and states: The title of this article seems to be the underlying theme in every “Mac vs. PC” commercial. [...]
Dizzle Says:
May 28th, 2008 at 2:05 am
Here is someone else watching too many Apple commercials. Heck I am beginning to suspect that if one googled “vista sucks” you get more results than typing in “porn.”
http://www.garynorth.com/public/3560.cfm
» those darned lying apple ads again…. i drank the kool-aid: clutching my dixie cup of apple goodness Says:
May 28th, 2008 at 2:10 am
[...] those darned lying apple ads again…. Posted in May 28th, 2008 by Dizzle in Apple cult, Windows fanbois (snicker) Remember, Apple is just making up all that stuff in their ad campaign and that is why people think Vista sucks because they are that stupid that if its in an ad, well it must be true? The ad agency doing the Mac vs. PC ads has spotted a weakness: the Vista operating system. It is using gentle humor to ridicule Microsoft. What can Microsoft do? Sue Apple for laughter infringement? [...]
Anthony Lawrence Says:
May 28th, 2008 at 6:36 am
Oh, come on: even Microsoft admits that Vista is slow compared to XP – they get all defensive and point out that it’s doing so much more, but the bottom line is that it is SLOW. Microsoft also admits that its UAC implementation is confusing and clumsy – again, they are quick to point out that it’s necessary (and it is), but there is a lot to dislike about Vista. Not that there isn’t plenty to dislike about XP, too..
As to why I like Macs: I like Macs because they are Unix based. The “Unix philosophy” of small tools that work together makes sense. I also will never use an OS that doesn’t have strong command line tools (and Microsoft has belatedly recognized that need itself, although once again they screwed up the implementation badly). OS X’s use of XML files rather than a bloated binary registry, it’s wonderfully responsive Spotlight, the general lack of concern for viri and malware, the instant recognition of my cameras, the slick Finder interface.. that’s the sugar that seals the deal.
I can understand your desire to hold on to what’s familiar, but OS X really does beat anything Microsoft has to offer. Yes, you’d have some switching pains, but after a few months you wouldn’t look back.
Zach Says:
May 28th, 2008 at 12:17 pm
I love listening to “Steve Jobs Soldiers” defend Macs. It’s like holding your little brother’s head at arms length while he takes swings at the air. You’re a little annoyed, but you just can’t help but chuckle at the little guy trying so hard.
Actually I think that would be a great Microsoft commercial.
Mac is swinging at PC while PC holds Mac at arm’s length. “Oh, look at Mac fighting like he thinks he has a chance. I’d almost be upset if it wasn’t just so cute.”
“The ad agency doing the Mac vs. PC ads has spotted a weakness: the Vista operating system. It is using gentle humor to ridicule Microsoft.”
I think I’ve spotted a weakness: Apple uses elitist marketing to try to get more than 8% of computer users to actually buy a Mac. I’m just using gentle humor to ridicule Apple. Enjoy!
Zach Says:
May 28th, 2008 at 12:32 pm
One other thing I’d like all of you that are championing XP to take a look at. Here are some XP product reviews from customers that purchased it around the time it came out. Am I having deja vu? Now hopefully you XP lovers weren’t the ones that were complaining about it just a few years ago.
http://reviews.cnet.com/windows/microsoft-windows-xp-professional/4852-3672_7-6534868.html?ord=ratingValue+asc
» Response to Zach part 2.A (this is going to be a long one because this is one of the stupidest things I have heard in a LONG time) i drank the kool-aid: clutching my dixie cup of apple goodness Says:
May 28th, 2008 at 6:14 pm
[...] Response to Zach part 2.A (this is going to be a long one because this is one of the stupidest things I have heard in a LONG time) Posted in May 28th, 2008 by Dizzle in Windows fanbois (snicker) Remember our old friend who blames Apple for Vista’s bad reputation? Vista has a negative stigma, mostly among consumers that don’t know anything about it. [...]
Dizzle Says:
May 28th, 2008 at 6:33 pm
Hey Zach, that would actually be a cute commercial. You should send it to the Borg, you might make some money off of it. It is certainly funnier than Ballmer could come up with besides dancing like a trained monkey.
XP sucked when it came out. By SP2 it was decent. I stayed with Windows 98 until then. But then again I was a windoze fangrl so it really didn’t matter.
So it appears you are now using the tactic, Oh yeah but XP sucked too!!!
Oookaaayyyyy, if that’s what you want to do to. Retarded, but it’s a free country.
Funny how threatened the winbloze peeps are over a puny 8% market share. Run along now to Wal-Mart and pick up your $400 P[iece of]C[rap] along with some toilet paper.
Zach Says:
May 28th, 2008 at 7:01 pm
Hey Dizzle:
My point was that people complained about XP when it came out too.
Do me a favor, before you start with the personal attacks again, at least attempt to understand what I’m saying. You’re quick to call things retarded and so on to get your point across, but all you’re doing is undermining your own argument with your prejudices and disrespect.
It’s OK to be passionate about a subject. It’s another thing to be a blind fanatic. Hopefully you will learn the difference so that people can take your opinions more seriously.
Beretta Says:
May 28th, 2008 at 8:25 pm
Oh. My. Gosh.
Zach, have you EVER tried to run Vista, let alone the premium version, with the specs you listed? That system would be a complete slouch with XP, let alone that bloated lump of e-lard that is Vista!
And as for your comments about Ubuntu, I have only one question: Ever used it? I have. In fact, I switched to it to avoid getting Vista. Actually try it. It is easy. And by Easy, I mean easier than Windows.
If you can afford it, mac is available. If not, Ubuntu is there. And here’s the thing – Wintards often say that blue screens are cause by hardware. But guess what happens when that uidentical hardware runs Ubuntu? No crashes. :)
Why anyone would afflict himself with Windows when he has those two other options?
Dave Says:
May 29th, 2008 at 11:18 am
Just a quick note to Beretta who said:
If you can afford it, mac is available. If not, Ubuntu is there. And here’s the thing – Wintards often say that blue screens are cause by hardware. But guess what happens when that uidentical hardware runs Ubuntu? No crashes. :)”
Hardware doesn’t cause crashes, drivers do. The problem with most hardware manufacturers is they are always moving on to the next product, and leave the older products without support on the newer operating systems. Vendors had massive amounts of time to help their customers by getting drivers ready for Vista. They instead left the blame for Vista with those customer complaints.
With the Linux movement there is a very passionate community and they have taken great steps to make sure that equipment have proper drivers, but that doesn’t mean that if you get some off the wall 5.25″ drive it wouldn’t crash like the Hindenburg. In fact most early Linux adopters had massive issues with finding drivers, that is part of the reason Ubuntu is becoming so popular with mainstream users.
Every release has its problems, I know Ubuntu 8.04 (Hardy Heron) has been knocked a bit because of problems that made things much harder to do (like NFS shares). It was done in the name of security, but it is inconveniencing users, so the question during the maturity of a OS is where do you draw the line between the two demands?
Everyone has comfort levels and should try out each OS to find which they feel more comfortable using.
Dizzle Says:
May 29th, 2008 at 1:13 pm
Zach, I warned you. If I think something is retarded I say so. Nearly everyone knowledgeable in the subject, not even Mac fans, that I have given a link to this article to have nearly spit on their computer screen over one part or another due to either its falseness, naivete, or ridiculousness. You see, half of what I say is schitck. The problem is you are serious – and there is just no amount of crack on earth to be smoked that would account for anyone saying “truth is Vista is an exceptional operating system.” Not even Ballmer claims that.
Also know one thing. I am not into the retarded (whoops I said it again), modern hurt puppy routine that inevitably happens when someone says something stupid, and someone actually has the nerve to state the obvious. If you wish to hide behind claiming those are “personal attacks” be my guest. I say grow a set. Because I am not attacking YOU – in fact I find YOU quite charming – I am attacking YOUR STATEMENTS. There is a difference.
Your arguments are bad. Simple as that. And you have been quite a bit hypocritical since in your post to me YOU made a personal attack. Tisk, tisk Zach, please try not to be a hypocrite. Of course, you can always do the passive aggressive “you blind fanatic! Stop personally attacking me!” routine again. I am amused. Do you even see the blatant self-contradiction there?
As far as “listening to what you say” – I have. You haven’t listened very much at all to what I have said – shall I count your personal attacks?
Blind fanatic
Prejudiced (false – I told you I wanted to like Vista and had no desire to switch to Mac, but of course only you are the fair-minded one right?)
Soldier of Steve Jobs
Relative of Steve Jobs
I could go on, but the reader who doesn’t have a dog in this fight will certainly see that you are not the wide-eyed innocent that you are acting. Come on Zach, I could care less what “attacks” you launch because I am not a wuss. Just don’t pretend like you are not. doing so – beginning with your hypocritical criticism of Apple thinking so low of consumers that they can tell them what to think of Vista yet YOU think so low of them that they blindly believe silly commercials!!!! Dude, get a grip.
I don’t know if you know the Bible Zach, and if not, I would much prefer to talk to you about that since that subject is much more important and I care more about your soul than your sucky defense of a rotten operating system, but there is a biblical saying that says to remove the log out of your own eye before picking the speck out of another.
Anyways, don’t worry – I will be keeping most of my comments to my own blog as I promised to systematically go through your piece as I had the time.
I am waiting though to see your mea culpa regarding hardy heron. What you said there too was false. I have known many a computer beginner who did not have issues with it at all.
Toodles.
» Response to Zach Part 2B (until I get bored with pointing out the retarditity of the quoted statement) i drank the kool-aid: clutching my dixie cup of apple goodness Says:
May 29th, 2008 at 1:31 pm
[...] Remember our old friend who blames Apple for Vista’s bad reputation? Vista has a negative stigma, mostly among consumers that don’t know anything about it. [...]
Dizzle Says:
May 29th, 2008 at 1:39 pm
Oh no Gosia, that CANNOT be. Zach will tell you in a non-personal, non-attack, way to put down the kool-aid because Vista gets a bad rap for no good reason.
That statement has the credibility of:
The Holocaust never happened
and
Man never landed on the moon
Beretta Says:
May 29th, 2008 at 7:40 pm
Dave – You say it’s drivers. Other Windows apologists say that it’s hardware incompatibility, but sure, let’s say it’s drivers.
Whatever the reason, isn’t it better that an OS doesn’t crash because it doesn’t know what to do with the hardware? It’s no good blaming the hardware manufacturers if – as you acknowledge – something like Unbuntu can survive because of the community (who, int he case of Ubuntu, are nearly co-developers). If that community of volunteer users can do it, why can’t Microsoft’s professional developers do it?
What this means is that the hardware developers are not to blame for the frequency of blue screens and lockups etc. If that were the case, Ubuntu would be just as vulnerable. But it’s not. Yet you have no problem blaming the hardware vendors.
Does this mean hardware vendors were prepared in advance with linux-specific drivers for the latest release of Ubuntu?
And if it’s merely a matter of drawing the line between security and convenience at a time when the OS becomes “mature,” why has this been an issue with Windows for so *long*?
Any way you cut it, an OS like Ubuntu (that lacks the level of vendor support that Windows has) completely exposes Microsoft’s pathetic attempt to blame the instability of it products on hardware. It’s no secret AT ALL that Windows Vista has been incredibly good for Linux, and it’s only ignorant people who have simply never used a recent version of Linux (people such as Zach) who would seriously say that Linux is just for high tech geeks.
I only hope the next version of Windows has just as many problems, inspiring even more people to join the Exodus.
Oh, and as for trying out a range of OSes to see what we’re comfortable with? I’ll tell you what I’m comfortable with:
1) An OS that runs smoothly on the hardware that it was advertised as running on
2) An OS that doesn’t freeze up or crash without explanation and with painful frequency
3) An OS where I can be sure what I am getting simply by virtue of the fact that I have bought it (and not to find out down the track that I should have bought super ultra version to have the application I needed)
4) An OS that does not behave as though it has launched a dozen processes in the background when I want to do just one.
5) An OS that is fully functional and running correctly without major faults when I first install it (with no updates)
Call it a “comfort level” if it makes you feel more comfortable, but basically people want an OS that doesn’t suck. Notice that there’s a move of people from Windows to mac, or from Windows to Linux, but pretty much zero traffic on the other direction.
Why defend it? Why not just say “yeah it sucks, but I don’t want to learn a new OS,” or “yeah it sucks, but I need it for work/school” or something. It’s only when people actually appear to be denying the problems with Windows that they start to look crazy.
Dizzle Says:
May 30th, 2008 at 12:57 pm
hehe Beretta, I remember that time when you were composing a snarky reply to me on your old windoze machine and it blue screened on you..
Now that was classic.
Oh sure, its the blame this, blame that, and the same people then cauterwaul that Herr Jobs controls all the hardware as if that is a bad thing when people want stability.
I work in law – and unfortunately this seems like a lot that I know – whatever ever argument suits the purpose, even if they are contradictory and mutually exclusive to the one used before.
Vista has been GREAT for everyone but Microsoft. Jobs is rubbing some buddha’s belly I am sure wondering what he did to deserve to have a ready market delivered up to him on a windows-shaped platter.
(you see I have to through something in every few posts negative about Jobs to make sure that Zach and company can’t feel too comfortable in their broad-brushing – so here’s one. Buddhism is retarded.)
And it wasn’t even related to computers.
Zach Says:
May 30th, 2008 at 11:36 am
Exodus: a going out; a departure or emigration, usually of a LARGE number of people.
I guess it depends on what your definition of large is. A large number of people to me is more than I can count on one hand.
According to statistics collected by Net Applications, Linux commands less than one percent of the desktop operating system market share in 2008, .63% as of April 2008.
Check this link for the truth:
http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=8
Statistics collected by W3 Counter show Linux commands, at most 1.77% of the market in 2008. So, it is safe to say that Linux holds down .01% – 1.77%.
Beretta,
I think the statistics tell the tale. I also think that true ignorance lies within sweeping generalizations and a lack of factual information. Do a little research if you wish to present anything other than your opinion.
I have used Linux, I am not “ignorant” when it comes to Linux, and the newest version of Linux is perfectly fine. That being said, I don’t know any “average” user that would ever feel comfortable using Linux. Are you kidding me?
When I do that test I think of my parents. They are average users that use a Windows based computer on a daily basis for a variety of tasks. They wouldn’t have any idea what to do if I replaced their Windows system with a Linux based system, and neither would most average to novice users.
Anyone that says that average users are switching from Vista to Linux is, to borrow a word from Beretta, crazy!
Linux is the BetaMax of operating systems. When I encounter a Linux user (which is next to never) I look at them like, “They still make you?”
Defending Vista aside, saying that anyone but a handful of tech geeks are switching to Linux is, at best, uninformed.
Dizzle Says:
May 30th, 2008 at 4:14 pm
Zach – tell me you DID NOT JUST SAY “I also think that true ignorance lies within sweeping generalizations and a lack of factual information. ” to anyone.
Is THIS the same Zach who said: Vista gets a bad rap for no good reason.
AND
“Also, if you are an Apple fan and a Mac lover can you do something for me?
The next time someone asks you, “How come you have a Mac?” don’t answer with, “Because I hate PCs.”
Because to call THOSE statements sweeping generalizations and lack of factual information would be a compliment.
I am glad your picture is posted with your article, so that I can see that you have an honest face and look like someone that would be fun to hang out with.
Why? Because I can’t impute evil intent to you. But nearly anyone else making such blatant statements as you have I would call a liar. But not you – I have simply said it is retarded because I trust my instincts and I believe you are a decent guy.
Dizzle Says:
May 30th, 2008 at 4:17 pm
wasn’t ready to finish…..
But really guy – take a look at what you have been saying and accusing others of doing. Why are you Microsoft defenders so scared of us puny little 8% ers?
Why? Because Microsoft has become the IBM that Bill originally wanted to fight. And unless Ballmer has some unseen talent besides monkey dancing, dodging eggs, and throwing chairs, Microsoft is going down.
Will Apple be the victor? Who knows. I have a sneakin’ suspicion that there is some scrappy little revolutionary out there that is going to surprise us all – Apple included.
Beretta Says:
May 30th, 2008 at 5:03 pm
Zach, you say “I guess it depends on what your definition of large is. A large number of people to me is more than I can count on one hand.”
If that’s the case, then the Exodus from Windows is large. How many fingers do you have? And as for your comments about factual errors and me being ignorant about whether or not you’ve used Linux, you’ve changed your tune. Remember this:
“Are we in the Twilight Zone? I consider myself an above average user and I wouldn’t feel comfortable using a Linux OS. How would the average user or better yet the inexperienced user feel about using a Linux OS?”
So you wouldn’t feel comfortable with it, eh? But now you say:
“I have used Linux, I am not “ignorant” when it comes to Linux, and the newest version of Linux is perfectly fine. That being said, I don’t know any “average” user that would ever feel comfortable using Linux. Are you kidding me?”
Sorry, you just got caught. Perfectly fine, but somehow we’re in the “Twilight Zone” if we think average users can use it. Guess what – I am an average user. I switched over to Ubuntu and I swear it was like coming up for air. It worked. It was intuitive. It was easy. Were there features that a tech person would like (e.g. the command line)? Sure! Did you have to use them? Nope, not at all.
That’s a bit like complaining about Windows because the dos box is hard, or because the registry is difficult to navigate. You don’t complain about the advanced features of Windows, so why complain about Linux because of its advanced features?
How many average users have you asked what they think of Ubuntu? This average user was blown away by how false the myths turned out to be.
You know what I’d love to see? A Mac vs PC ad with a Linux guy standing behind them both, in the middle. Every time Mac makes a point about PC, Linux could just smile and nod. And then PC could attempt some comeback about price, and they would both turn, shamefaced, to Linux, who grins and nods.
Some things to think about, Mr Linux-is-pefectly-fine-but-I-wouldn’t-feel-comfortable-with-it-and-I-have-thousands-of-fingers Zach.
Zach Says:
May 30th, 2008 at 7:14 pm
Beretta,
The line you are quoting says, “I wouldn’t feel comfortable using Linux”, meaning I wouldn’t feel comfortable using Linux everyday, like I do with Windows. Go ahead and dissect the article as much as you want, but you’re still not addressing the point of the article, which is Vista gets a bad rap because of negativity perpetuated through people that don’t really know too much about it.
You and Dizzle can make your claims saying average users are switching to Linux, that I’m saying Apple ads are the only thing that make people hate Vista, and yet neither of you can make an argument concerning the actual topic of the article. You can only make baseless claims and off topic arguments.
I’ve used Linux, I’ve used the newest Linux OS too, and whether you believe it doesn’t matter to me in the least, but I do want all of my readers to know that saying anything to the contrary would be false.
So, enjoy Linux. If it works for you that’s great, but you can’t convince me that anyone but tech geeks use Linux as their primary operating system, at this point. Maybe in the future it will be different, but for now, less than 1% speaks for itself.
» Response to Zach Part 3 i drank the kool-aid: clutching my dixie cup of apple goodness Says:
May 31st, 2008 at 6:32 pm
[...] Response to Zach Part 3 Posted in May 31st, 2008 by Dizzle in Windows fanbois (snicker), apple haters Back to our old friend who blames Apple for Vista’s bad reputation? Vista is Bad … Because I Said So … That’s Why [...]
Beretta Says:
June 3rd, 2008 at 8:46 pm
Zach, so you’re saying that in spite of my lack of tech knowledge, I just MUST be a tech geek because I use Linux? I’d say THAT is pretty baseless. On what basis could you possibly say that I’m a tech geek – apart from the fact that I use Linux, an easier, more stable operating system than Windows?
It’s at this point it becomes clear that no matter what the evidence, you are right.
» back to my zach i drank the kool-aid: clutching my dixie cup of apple goodness Says:
June 7th, 2008 at 5:43 pm
[...] back to my zach Posted in June 7th, 2008 Tags: Zach by Dizzle in Windows fanbois (snicker), apple haters, windows Let’s continue on with Zach who has since proven in his comments that he has absolutely no rebuttals to any points made. The truth is that Vista is an excellent operating system. [...]
» back to zach again i drank the kool-aid: clutching my dixie cup of apple goodness Says:
June 14th, 2008 at 11:33 am
[...] Zach then rants about this ad and gives some laughable specs on what will run Vista. Let’s take a look at the minimum requirements to run Vista Home Premium, Business, or Ultimate editions: [...]
» Back to Zach’s Bak i drank the kool-aid: clutching my dixie cup of apple goodness Says:
June 17th, 2008 at 10:20 pm
[...] Back to Zach’s Bak Posted in June 17th, 2008 by Dizzle in Windows fanbois (snicker), sheer kool-aid Zach also whined about this video: [...]
» this one is too good not to highlight - the agonizing death of a windoze fanboi i drank the kool-aid: clutching my dixie cup of apple goodness Says:
June 20th, 2008 at 12:09 am
[...] Welcome brother. But don’t tell Zach. He lives in his own self-induced reality distortion field. [...]
» Zach’s anti-linux boogeyman i drank the kool-aid: clutching my dixie cup of apple goodness Says:
June 21st, 2008 at 1:35 am
[...] Zach’s anti-linux boogeyman Posted in June 21st, 2008 by Beretta in Windows fanbois (snicker), windows Zach is a Windows man. OSX just isn’t better, and as for Linux – specifically Unbuntu – is just too complicated. It would freak people out. The average home user would find Windows easier than Ubuntu. [...]
» give us this day our daily kool-aid i drank the kool-aid: clutching my dixie cup of apple goodness Says:
June 22nd, 2008 at 7:02 am
[...] Zach, have you heard? [...]
» A school that actually learnt something. Unlike Zach. i drank the kool-aid: clutching my dixie cup of apple goodness Says:
June 22nd, 2008 at 3:25 pm
[...] A school that actually learnt something. Unlike Zach. Posted in June 22nd, 2008 by Beretta in Windows fanbois (snicker), windows According to Windows Fanboi Zach, mentioned in my last post, Ubuntu Linux is ultra tricky for normal computer users, and staying with Windows is best. He’s an “above average” computer user, and even he is “uncomfortable” using Linux, he says. [...]
» give us this day our daily kool-aid i drank the kool-aid: clutching my dixie cup of apple goodness Says:
July 3rd, 2008 at 6:15 am
[...] Shhhh…. don’t tell Zach. He thinks people are only influenced by those commercials because they are a pile putrid lies fabricated by Apple. From Apple Matters: The gains of Apple TV can all be summed up with two words. No Media. [...]
» Zach is missing his funny bone, have you seen it? i drank the kool-aid: clutching my dixie cup of apple goodness Says:
July 4th, 2008 at 10:07 pm
[...] Zach is missing his funny bone, have you seen it? Posted in July 4th, 2008 by Dizzle in Windows fanbois (snicker) More from our friend Zach’s hapless article: [...]
» When Zachs attack i drank the kool-aid: clutching my dixie cup of apple goodness Says:
July 5th, 2008 at 11:50 pm
[...] When Zachs attack Posted in July 5th, 2008 Tags: Zach by Dizzle in Windows fanbois (snicker) Yes, going back to my friend Zach and still picking over the carcass of his article Elitist Marketing vs. Vista … Yeah I Went There … [...]
» Zach in a box i drank the kool-aid: clutching my dixie cup of apple goodness Says:
July 9th, 2008 at 12:12 pm
[...] Zach in a box Posted in July 9th, 2008 Tags: Zach by Dizzle in sheer kool-aid This is the installment were we finally put Zach’s dog of an article out of its misery: No More Snap Judgments … Give Vista a Chance [...]
Me Says:
August 3rd, 2008 at 2:32 am
“In my circle, I know many IT professionals [...]”
I find that statement inconsistent with the length of the incoherent rambling “Dizzle” has had the time to post on this page.
Me. Says:
August 12th, 2008 at 9:06 pm
No wonder why people say Mac users are the most annoying users on earth
Zach Says:
August 13th, 2008 at 12:24 pm
My Point Exactly
Check out this link:
http://www.mojaveexperiment.com/#/?video=v1
This experiment illustrates exactly what I’m saying in this article. Although, I’m sure Dizzle and the 3 other people that live in her alternate universe will find some way to distort this and twist this into something that serves the fervent but ignorant Apple audience that have posted comments on this article so far.
I can’t wait to hear what they have to say. Ladies and gentlemen, the delusional comedy styling of Dizzle…
CF Says:
August 19th, 2008 at 3:18 pm
I have used Linux and Unix and while I like both, I am using Vista because it’s the most appropriate OS for the desktop in most enterprise settings (certainly in mine). What I find amusing about most mac users I have encountered is how they’re willing to defend a product that does less, costs more, is less cutting-edge, and still manages to crash more often, just to feel like they’re “different.”
Apple assumes that its users are technologically-limited (I would argue cognitively limited too). That’s why you have to take their crap product to a “genius” for any defect that might pop up. They don’t want you to be confused or do anything besides checking your email, surfing the web, or adjusting picture saturation. Good luck standardizing on mac in an IT enterprise.
I suggest a new slogan for Apple: “Don’t think.”
JR Says:
September 6th, 2008 at 11:21 pm
Dizzle,
Maybe you should pick up some training on Microsoft products. If you had proper knowledge on how things actually work then maybe you would understand some things. Blue screens are hardware related 90% of the time, maybe you should check you ACTUAL machine. Most of the stuff you refer to in your posts are opinion, where most things in this article are fact. You seem very stereotypical Mac users, you attack people who use something different than you do because you dont understand it. Enjoy your 10% of the marketshare, it will be a long time before Apple beats Microsoft or PC’s for that matter; Unless of course you are selling iPods…just because its trendy.
R0b Says:
October 1st, 2008 at 1:19 pm
I use both Windows and Mac on the desktop/laptop and Linux and Windows on my servers. My experience would qualify me as a “poweruser” having been gainfully employed as a software developer for 5 years, then systems analyst for 6 years, then a Network Administrator for 4.5 years and now as the CIO of an EA affiliated gaming development firm. Personally, I have no OS preference. They’re all good.
In my experience I have noticed that most people tend to defend their “team” rather aggressively without any sort of quantitative rationale. By “team” I mean nationality, sports team, flavour of beer, gaming console, and even OS. Most people are frightened of change. Therefore anything that challenges one’s comfort zone is usually deemed a threat. Hence OS Zealots.
By slapping a subjective tone on their marketing (Vista Sucks because it isn’t as cool as Leopard) Apple sidesteps the real issue: both OS’s are different flavors of the same thing. We really can’t compare Vista to Leopard anymore than we can compare one nationality to another. We can compare similarities but nothing so concrete as to make a definite judgement as to why one is better than the other. Hence the tired OS argument. Apple knows this, and so they go right for the same spot Teeth Whitening, Weight Loss and Rogaine commercials aim: sex appeal, popularity and acceptance. In effect Apple, is targeting our insecurities rather than computing needs. A very effective tactic for most products.
As far as I am concerned, an OS is a tool as is the hardware on which it is installed. Tools are used to perform tasks, nothing more. My tools do not care about me. The people who make the tools I use don’t likely care about me either. They care only about my money. So why would I, or anyone, devote their time evangelizing a product unless that product’s manufacturer is compensating for such effort? Insecurity?
Scott Says:
November 20th, 2008 at 3:14 pm
Zach,
I really appreciated your article and I find it amazing how many people seem to not comprehend on how to argue their side/opinion and you’ve been kind enough to ask them to clarify. Attacking the person instead of the issue has been a long time tactic.
I personally believe that in fact Vista has had some issues and yeah is a little bloated and the network searching is painful but otherwise I’m sure I need to upgrade my skills a little with the new OS. I’ve always owned a Mac since OS8 and I still own one and I like it but i don’t know if its better but many times it works better for me. Personal taste choice is all. However I do in fact use Vista and yeah Ubuntu which is a great OS but I NEED Vista for things I can’t do in Ubuntu and Mac. therefore I love the comments by R0b.
Keep up the good work Zach I’d like to read more!
Rick Says:
November 20th, 2008 at 11:16 pm
I have XP and Vista in a dual boot. Why a dual boot you may ask? I am still trying to get Vista to work with some of my peripherals. What really pisses me off is the main reasons I got Vista for won’t even function but function in XP. I can use two video capture TV tuner cards in XP but Vista rejects the second card. They work separately. I can’t get my camera to work. I can’t even get my brand new printer purchased this year to operate properly under Vista. So why am I pissed, gee I don’t know, I spent a bunch of money and still haven’t been able to use the operating system!!! I would like to send it back to Microsoft and tell them to stick it where the sun doesn’t shine!
Rick Says:
November 20th, 2008 at 11:16 pm
And get my money back
Zach Says:
November 21st, 2008 at 10:19 am
Rick:
You should be upset with the hardware vendors not Microsoft.
Steve Says:
December 31st, 2008 at 5:14 pm
Microsoft has a very bad habit of taking a perfectly good GUI and changing it for the sake of change… sometimes they shuffle menu items around at random… where you thought something should be suddenly isn’t there anymore… when will Microsoft learn that some things don’t need to be fixed because they weren’t broken in the first place. If Microsoft wants to improve their OS, maybe they should reduce the number of mouse-clicks required to shut down Windows to two… instead of three or four… now THAT would be an improvement worth paying for. Sheesh, get back to basics, boys and girls.
Sandra Says:
May 20th, 2009 at 2:02 pm
I loved all the Mac ads – they just make me smile and giggle out loud. Whatever point was being made …. was lost by the humour of the Ads. I’m glad you added them to make your article a little more entertaining. Wow – why so serious! It kinda sounds like you own stocks in Microsoft and are worried about their value crashing – maybe diversify and add some Mac stock as well.